BASF Walltite Insulation - Experiences?

Shane007

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Anybody know anything about BASF Walltite Insulation. It's pumped into the cavity as a liquid, expands to fill every nook & cranny. Where the existing polystyrene insulation has come away from the wall, it rams it back & fills everything.
A customer of mine had it done during the summer & notices a big difference in the lack of draughts in his house & notices how the house doesn't cool down easily.
When it as pumped in, he saw little snots of it around windows, vents, basically everywhere the blocklayers didn't do a great job with detail.

So my question is has anyone or know of anyone else who had it done & how much did it cost?
There are only about 10 installers certified by BASF to install it & I had one of them round last week.
He priced it at €24 per m2 plus vat so it's coming in at €6,000. He priced bonded beads at €2,100.

My take is you can only fill the cavity once & if this system is the system of the norm for the future, I would rather spend on this one.
 

Shane007

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It is not iab certed, but bba certed. Apparently more test results due to be released in coming days.
I spoke to the manufacturer rep today & it's the only closed cell application on the market for cavities. All others are open cell.
 

Guns N Roses

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BBA is a British Certification System. I would doubt that it would be acceptable in Ireland.

Just because it's certified in the UK doesn't necessary mean it will be suitable for Irish applcations.

I would wait until it's IAB certifed first before taking a chance. With the new Building Control Regulations coming out in March 2014, I can't see any Architect/Engineer certifying it solely on the basis it's BBA Certified.
 

Shane007

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BBA is a British Certification System. I would doubt that it would be acceptable in Ireland.

Just because it's certified in the UK doesn't necessary mean it will be suitable for Irish applcations.

I would wait until it's IAB certifed first before taking a chance. With the new Building Control Regulations coming out in March 2014, I can't see any Architect/Engineer certifying it solely on the basis it's BBA Certified.
I know BBA is a UK certification. How would it be not suitable for Irish applications? Nearly every building regulations in Ireland is a straight copy of the UK regs with the words UK crossed out & replaced with Irish! The level of certification process is far superior in the UK than in Ireland as they have Building Control, streams of avenues continuously reviewing & altering the regs to suit the current market place.
I spent many years of my working life & my training life in the UK & I have more trust in their system than in ours. Our climates are very similar also.

Secondly, it is not for a new build so I do not require an architect to certify it. If I pump the walls with beads, an architect would not be certifying that either.

I understand your concerns, but what I was hoping for was for experiences from people who have direct experience of the system. I only know of one person & he has given me an extremely positive report but it was only installed this summer.

But thank you for your reply.
 

robflanagan

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walltite

Shane2007

How did you get on with the walltite/Econ guys? I'm very interesting in using their product in a renovation project. Did it work out at the same cost that was quoted initially?

Rob
 

Shane007

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Hi Rob,
The guys only just finished the install this week, Wednesday evening. I wasn't expecting to notice an immediate change but that night was enormous noticeable changes.
First off, the main reason I got it installed in the first instance was due to the cold temperature in both my daughter's bedrooms, which could rarely get above 17C. They are both north facing with 2 outer walls each. My hall is 6m x 4m x 5.5m high which is a gallery hall. This was always difficult to heat with the UFH being such a large space. I am trying to heat really two rooms of equal size with the floor area for the UFH of one room.
My kitchen is south facing, again approx 7m x 4m plus a breakfast room off that, open plan in a large living room.
What I noticed that night, bedrooms were reading 20C. Kitchen 21C. Next morning the same. Next evening, bedrooms 21C & kitchen 22C. The heating has been on the same length of time but shutting down much earlier. One of daughters said she is too warm in bed & keeps waking up the wrong way round in bed!
An enormous noticeable difference in the lack of drafts in the house. During the install the product was oozing out of little hairline cracks around windows, doors, below sills, above lintels. The contractor spent hours with a special machine removing the snots of product where they came out.
At the start of the installation, the product kept shooting out of other drill holes as my existing polystyrene had come away from the wall. Then you would hear the crack, where it was being rammed back against the wall & the product was no longer shooting out. They also drilled below my radon barrier to ensure it reached down to the foundations.
I used my thermal image camera before & after & the heat loss had gone.

Cost wise, I did have to change my contractor as the first one kept not turning up for appointments. The second contractor was excellent & very professional. They came a long distance to do the install also. Cost wise was €5,800 inclusive. IMO very much worth it as you can only fill your cavity once & this is closed cell so my air tightness was done also. It also gets into places beads will never get to. It is not a PIR insulation so it will not shrink with time.
If you wish to know the contractor I used, post a recommendation sought in the recommended trades section & I can give you the details there.
 

robflanagan

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Shane

I'm delighted to hear of your experience. You know yourself, all brochures will only give a positive spin. That does seem to be a good price particularly when you compare it to an internal system with airtightness membranes. I'd be delighted if could pass on the contractor's details through the recommended trades section. Many thanks
Rob
 

Shane007

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Hi Rob,
I think you have to make the request on the recommended trades forum & then I and anybody else can give you their recommendations.
 

Guns N Roses

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FYI

Extract from HomeBond House Building Manual

"The use of full fill cavity wall insulation is limited both in terms of external wall construction and in terms of exposure conditions.

In areas of normal exposure, fair-faced unrendered brickwork is acceptable for full fill cavity wall insulation up to two storeys in height with a minimum cavity width of 90mm and up to three storeys in height with a minimum cavity width of 140mm.

In areas of severe exposure, unrendered brickwork is not suitable for full-fill cavity wall insulation.

Cavity walls with the outer leaf constructed using unrendered fair-faced blockwork are not suitable for full-fill cavity wall insulation.

Full-fill cavity wall insulation must be appropriately certified in relation to the intended use and conditions of use, as per the guidance outlined above, and must be installed in accordance with the requirements of its Agrement certificate. The map included in the Agrement certificate outlines the area of normal and severe exposure. The map is also reproduced on page 225 of the House Building Manual."
 

Shane007

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773
FYI

Extract from HomeBond House Building Manual

"The use of full fill cavity wall insulation is limited both in terms of external wall construction and in terms of exposure conditions.

In areas of normal exposure, fair-faced unrendered brickwork is acceptable for full fill cavity wall insulation up to two storeys in height with a minimum cavity width of 90mm and up to three storeys in height with a minimum cavity width of 140mm.

In areas of severe exposure, unrendered brickwork is not suitable for full-fill cavity wall insulation.

Cavity walls with the outer leaf constructed using unrendered fair-faced blockwork are not suitable for full-fill cavity wall insulation.

Full-fill cavity wall insulation must be appropriately certified in relation to the intended use and conditions of use, as per the guidance outlined above, and must be installed in accordance with the requirements of its Agrement certificate. The map included in the Agrement certificate outlines the area of normal and severe exposure. The map is also reproduced on page 225 of the House Building Manual."
Thanks. I would have thought all houses have rendered or similar finishes. I don't know of any with just bare blocks as that would prove to be a very damp external wall.
Waltite is also waterproof apparently.
 

Guns N Roses

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551
Thanks. I would have thought all houses have rendered or similar finishes. I don't know of any with just bare blocks as that would prove to be a very damp external wall.
There are a number of unrendered fairfaced block products on the market for example Forticrete. There quite common on public buildings but you do see them on dwellings. These kind of products rely on having a suitable cavity to prevent water from passing through to the interior wall construction. Unrendered fairfaced bricks also require a suitable cavity to prevent water ingress.
 

Shane007

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773
According to it's BBA Cert, it will resist the transfer of precipitation to the inner leaf only when the product is properly installed in accordance with the certficate.
Yes but that is where you will want it stopped to. The only installers for the product are the ones approved by Waltite. I got hold of the installer's manual & they installed it as far as I can make out, exactly as described in the manufacturer's instructions.
I was very wary of spending that amount of money on this & being over 2 & 1/2 times more expensive than bonded bead. I researched as much as could but I could not find anybody albeit one who had it installed & their feedback was a noticeable huge difference. The BER guy I use, who is very technical, had his walls pumped with bonded bead & his wife did not notice any difference & he noticed a marginal difference. This was close to the feedback I was receiving across the board for bonded bead.
IMO, bonded bead cannot get into the areas that Waltite can, it cannot do air tightness, it cannot force the existing insulation back tight against the wall where it has come lose.
I am not in the insulation game whatsoever, but I am in the heating industry. I did, approx 4 years ago, completed the standard Domestic Insulation Installers Course, on,y for knowledge as I felt if I understood better how a house loses heat, I might understand better on how to replace that heat. I have never even rolled out a single roll of insulation except in my own house a couple of years ago.

Yesterday, my wife switched off the heating because she said the house was too warm!!! The house temperature dropped to 19.5C so the heating went back on today but for less time.
 

Shane007

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773
Yes. There is a detail in the installation manual, however, it would be best to speak to the installation company as they would advise more accurately & I presume they would have to do a suitability survey.
 

robflanagan

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Shane

What's the size of your house roughly? Bungalow or two storey? Did the walltite installers bring scaffolding? Sorry for all the questions but just getting a rough idea of cost before sending out drawings.

Thanks
Rob
 

Shane007

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773
3,000sqft two storey house.
They brought their own low towers & ladders. I have a 3 lift aluminium tower which they used but only because it was handy. I am sure they have all necessary equipment to carry out the works.
Cost was €25 + vat per m2 of wall area. They deducted windows & doors from the wall area. I have 3 double doors, front door with side glazing panels & a single door with side windows. I think my injected wall area was in the region of 210sqm.
 

robflanagan

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I know that's more expensive than standard cavity fill with other materials but it seems to be very good value considering the end product. Thanks for the info Shane.
 
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