Assistance with Form 11 Returns

A

Alkers86

Registered User
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I am a PAYE employee but during 2019 - 2021 inclusive I availed of a company share purchase scheme, which has completely confused my tax situation.

The particular scheme used 2% of my salary each month to purchase shares at a 5% discount vs the market rate. There was no guidance or communication of the tax implications of same when joining the scheme.

I susequently found out about the need to declare the 5% price discount as additional income, which I have now done by submitting form RTSO1 forms for each of the transactions. The amounts in cosideration are very small - the total of the 5% discounts added up to be €112, attracting a tax liability of €46, which I have paid.

When I log into Revenue online, my 2020 records are visible correctly, including a tax return. For 2021, I cannot make a tax return and am directed to ROS. I have registered for ROS now and it is asking me to complete a Form 11 for 2020 and 2021. It has auto-populated most of the fields for me and I have incldued the share purchase discount myself but the form is coming up with a tax liability of €2,200 + a penalty of 10% of that. No hassle with the penalty but I don't understand how I can have such an outstanding tax liability when having completed a PAYE return and the only differnece being the 5% discount amounting to €56 (on which I have now paid €23 of tax).

Should I perhaps be leaving the entire Form 11 blank other than the 5% share discount as everything else has already been accounted for through the PAYE system? I had declared rent a room income, working from home relief, flat rate expenses etc all properly accounted for through the PAYE system. I have been unable to claim any of these items for 2021 as I cannot make a tax return through revenue online.

I have sought some assitance from accountants online but they don't seem to understand my predicament and are quoting me €600 - €1000 (I've tried three companies) to do a tax return on my behalf.

Can anyone reccommend anyone who would be able to assist me with this? I am willing to pay an hourly rate for example as I don't believe there to be much work here for someone who knows what to do. I have records of everything.

Any assistance or recommendations much appreciated, I am at wits end.
 
Have you tried removing the 5% share discount from the form 11 ?
If you remove it does the demand for 2200 disappear ?
You can play around with the inputed data on the form 11 and each time you alter it you can let the form do the new tax calculation.
By doing this you can see if you have made any errors.
You may have inputed the 5% share discount in the wrong area of the form.

You can use the form 11 as a tax calculation tool. By doing this you can learn how the tax system operates and you can teach yourself how to complete the form correctly.
It doesn't matter what adjustments you make to the form. It is only when you submit the form to revenue that everything must be correctly completed.
 
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I've been thinking about the complexities of tax and the need to engage professionals for the last few year s and concluded that there is a market in most countries for Civilian training in how to file tax returns.

Any material produced could easily be digitized and sold on a recurring basis. Money for jam if only someone would take it on.
 
Horatio said:
I've been thinking about the complexities of tax and the need to engage professionals for the last few year s and concluded that there is a market in most countries for Civilian training in how to file tax returns.

Any material produced could easily be digitized and sold on a recurring basis. Money for jam if only someone would take it on.
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I totally agree, although I did attend a day long course by local Enterprise Board on how to fill Form 11 basically at very little cost so don't know whether these are nationwide or not, pre Covid obviously! They would also obviously be geared more towards small business than more personal type returns but still useful.

I did feel though that the private accountancy firm giving the course were seriously touting for business, there seemed to be a bit much of putting the fear of God into you if you got it wrong sort of vibe!

It gave me a lot of good info though and I had a few more queries and approached a local accountant to basically buy an hour of his time to answer the last few queries and show me exactly where on the form the bits went, made it clear I was not going to be paying anyone to fill this every year so after initially getting past that hurdle it was also very useful.
 
Did you try to have a look the "tax credit section"?
If I remember well you need to populate them manually. Also if you want to claim tax credit for health insurance you need to put your details in the right field.
 
Alkers86 said:
Should I perhaps be leaving the entire Form 11 blank other than the 5% share discount as everything else has already been accounted for through the PAYE system? I had declared rent a room income, working from home relief, flat rate expenses etc all properly accounted for through the PAYE system. I have been unable to claim any of these items for 2021 as I cannot make a tax return through revenue online.
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Did you include these items and your employee credit on the Form 11? You have to specifically enter these again, they don't follow through from your PAYE record.

If that doesn't fix the problem, I would recommend checking what's different between the calculation that ROS is giving you and the statement of liability (I think that's the name of what used to the P21) you were issued with when you did your PAYE return.
 
You usually leave the prepopulated fields alone - don't blank them out.

Just do the calculation using those pre-populated fields, that should be just a couple hundred out. (For me that's usually due to needing to fill in health insurance fields).

For the share option what amount are you putting into "Total Chargeable amount"? I'm not doing it this year myself but I think for you it should just be 56e - not the full value of the shares.

One thing to watch is it's not just the 5% discount that is taxed, it's the full profit over 6 months (if there is an additional profit), regardless of whether you sell or not. Also 5% is a low discount it's usually 15% for US ESPP schemes, after tax that's a 2.5% discount - if you've broker charges and currency conversions that 2.5% mightn't go too far to justify RTSO hassle.

(I used find many regular accountants weren't that clued in on share schemes - that may have changed over the last few years though.)
 
elcato said:
or you could just pay a professional to do it :)
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As I've mentioned, the quotes I've received have been over 1000, which doesn't make sense to declare 56e of income...

My whole op, was looking for recommendations for assistance from a professional
 
Looking for some help

I have made a lump sum payment into my AVC for 2021 and want to apply for the associated tax relief. Do I need a ROS account for this and is this separate to myaccount shown below. The image below shown the options I get when I log in.

I clicked the option to Review you tax 2018-2021.
1668165954178.png






I was able to make a submission under Tax credits & reliefs for 2021 as show below in the last entry.
1668165985543.png





I cannot see the screen where I entered the data as I just have submitted my tax return for 2021.



Is this all I need to do. Or do I need to fill out a form 11 to get the tax relief.



In relation to ROS, when I try to apply for a login in I get this. I did use my PPS number. The image below as been edited to not show my number. I did select an Individual or company.

1668165924606.png



Thaks
 
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Thanks Clubman
The image above as been edited to not show my number. My PPS number 7 digits and a letter. I did use that and got the following message.


Either the tax type you have entered is not valid for this registration number or you have entered the registration number incorrectly. It can take up to 3 working days for new tax types or registration numbers to fully update so that you can complete this step.Please note that a PAYE registration number is not valid for ROS. ROS services are available for self-assessed taxes, business taxes or reporting obligations.
 
If you're not normally self-assessed and required to file a form 11 return then you can claim AVC lump sum tax relief via myAccount. I did it myself this year for 2021 - it was somewhere under the employment related tax credits/reliefs. But you're too late now for 2021 as the deadline was October 31st.
 
Thanks again.


The link above has the following
* As well as making your pension contribution, you must also submit your claim for 2021 tax relief to Revenue on or before 16th November 2022, using your Revenue online account.

Is there a difference between ROS and your Revenue online account.

Filing your tax return

This is an overview on how to file your income tax return
www.revenue.ie www.revenue.ie

The following is from the web site above.

The Pay & File deadline for the 2021 Income Tax Return (Form 11) is Wednesday 16 November 2022. This deadline is for customers who file and pay on Revenue Online Service (ROS). For more information please see Revenue eBrief 088/22.

If I can not get access to ROS in time, do I need to get a Tax professional to use ROS on my behalf in order to get the tax relief??
 
ROS said:
If I can not get access to ROS in time, do I need to get a Tax professional to use ROS on my behalf in order to get the tax relief??
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They will also struggle at this late stage to get access to your account on ROS, but if you act today, they might succeed. If you leave it until after the weekend, the chances will dim considerably.

For what it's worth, and without having checked this, I'm pretty certain you don't lose the entitlement to claim AVC related tax relief by narrowly missing the Form 11 filing deadline. You may be caught with a 5% late filing surcharge (which you can appeal) but unless you're a proprietary company director or unless you've a substantial liability to pay, that may not amount to a problem. See https://www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/documents/form11-helpsheet.pdf
 
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ROS said:
Looking for some help

I have made a lump sum payment into my AVC for 2021 and want to apply for the associated tax relief. Do I need a ROS account for this and is this separate to myaccount shown below. The image below shown the options I get when I log in.

I clicked the option to Review you tax 2018-2021.
View attachment 6828





I was able to make a submission under Tax credits & reliefs for 2021 as show below in the last entry.
View attachment 6829




I cannot see the screen where I entered the data as I just have submitted my tax return for 2021.



Is this all I need to do. Or do I need to fill out a form 11 to get the tax relief.



In relation to ROS, when I try to apply for a login in I get this. I did use my PPS number. The image below as been edited to not show my number. I did select an Individual or company.

View attachment 6827


Thaks
Click to expand...
Since you are PAYE only for 2021 given you filed a return via MyAccount, go back to the link review my tax 2018 to 2021 and amend you 2021 return. Once in the return click next till you get to the tab for tax credits and reliefs and go to the AVC field and click the edit button to enter your details.

One question though, how did you already have the AVC field completed for 2021 as illustrated in your image?
 
relax carry on said:
Since you are PAYE only for 2021 given you filed a return via MyAccount, go back to the link review my tax 2018 to 2021 and amend you 2021 return. Once in the return click next till you get to the tab for tax credits and reliefs and go to the AVC field and click the edit button to enter your details.

One question though, how did you already have the AVC field completed for 2021 as illustrated in your image?
Click to expand...
 
Sorry if I am not making my self clear. I appreciate the time you are all putting into this. Yesterday I did use "myaccount" to do what suggested (relax carry on). That is:

Once in the return click next till you get to the tab for tax credits and reliefs and go to the AVC field and click the edit button to enter your details.

This is shown in the second image in my first post above. The bottom of the image shows the AVC tax relief claim.

I have two question at this stage.
1. Is what I have done correct (using myaccont) and what is the deadline for doing it using "myaccount" as opposed to ROS or is it the 16/11/22 for both.
2. Or can I only use ROS to to claim the tax relief
 
ROS said:
1. Is what I have done correct (using myaccont) and what is the deadline for doing it using "myaccount" as opposed to ROS or is it the 16/11/22 for both.
2. Or can I only use ROS to to claim the tax relief
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As I said already, you can claim pension tax relief for 2021 via myAccount and the deadline there is October 31st 2022 with no flexibility in my direct and indirect experience and as advised by my financial advisor.

I have no idea if, should you miss the myAccount deadline, you can opt to become self assessed and do it via form 11/ROS. I wouldn't have thought so because it's normally Revenue who decide who is and is not self-assessed based on their income sources etc.?
 
ClubMan said:
As I said already, you can claim pension tax relief for 2021 via myAccount and the deadline there is October 31st 2022 with no flexibility in my direct and indirect experience and as advised by my financial advisor.
Click to expand...

No flexibility in
(a) paying the pension premium
(b) filing the return without imposition of surcharge, or
(c) filing the return without disallowment of tax relief on pension payment?
 
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