Laya April 2017 ~ Increase because of hospital charges for a service not provided

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PaddyBloggit

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Link here:

http://www.independent.ie/business/...surer-to-raise-prices-yet-again-35479536.html

"Laya managing director Dónal Clancy said patients who use a public hospital are being asked to sign form if they have health cover. If they sign, their insurer is charged €800 a night, rather than €80 a night, even though they are using public hospital facilities."

Does an insured person have to sign?

If a service hasn't been provided, why should it be charged for?

By being asked to sign for a service not being provided it looks as if the person who has private health insurance is being defrauded/entrapped ....
 
I was told by rep earlier that in some cases patients are being harassed to sign forms in A&E before they are even seen. It's scandalous really to be charging so much per night in what is after all a public hospital. It's no wonder premiums are going through the roof.
 
No. The patient does not have to sign but may be asked the question. Most people may think their experience will be better if they go in under private medical insurance. However, that is no longer the case. However, going private can mean you can choose your consultant.
 
Alas, if you are in A+E and are asked to sign a form, you WILL sign as you do not want to be delayed any further. It is wrong, but most Policyholders will sign.

It is (another) scandal that your private health insurers will be charged €800+ per night for a chair or a trolley!
 
Unless I could be guaranteed a private room then there's no point signing. Chances of a single room nowadays are slim unless you have a contagious condition or are dying. Even semi private in our hospital are poky rooms with little room to move around the beds, so having 2 extra beds on a ward as a public patient makes little difference. My mum was a private patient in a public hospital. She was put in a 5 bed ward with men and women mixed - she was not happy sharing with men. So she asked to be moved. She was then put in a 6 bed public ward, all the while under a private consultant. We asked numerous times for a private room, to be told that they were being used for quarantine or dying patients. Well, when a nurse came in during the night to chirpily tell us that there was now a private room available we knew time was limited. A woman had just died, they waited a while to let her family stay with the deceased and then shipped her out and mum in. Needless to say another person was going to get the room a few short days after that! It's an absolute joke of a system.
 
The main incentive to sign when in A&e is that if you don't sign you will be charged the €80 per night unless you have a medical card. Happened to me before ; was in A&e for hours(and hours) eventually admitted to public ward. Didn't sign as really objected to Aviva being charged €750 per night. Few weeks later got bill for €300 (€75 x 5) so did ring up and gave my health insurance details. They have you over a barrel - the €750/€800 per night is some type of 'average' of what it costs to run a hospital.
 
argentina said:
The main incentive to sign when in A&e is that if you don't sign you will be charged the €80 per night unless you have a medical card. Happened to me before ; was in A&e for hours(and hours) eventually admitted to public ward. Didn't sign as really objected to Aviva being charged €750 per night. Few weeks later got bill for €300 (€75 x 5) so did ring up and gave my health insurance details. They have you over a barrel - the €750/€800 per night is some type of 'average' of what it costs to run a hospital.
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could you not have rung your insurance company asking them to pay the €300 bill or would that not be allowed
 
If you are asked / cornered in a public ED about health insurance you are not obliged to answer the question AFAIK.

Generally, I do not advocate lying. However, there is an ethically arguable case to justify lying by saying that you have no health insurance when you do have it. The ethical or moral point relates to the provision of public service level attention (not always a bad service I stress) at private level charges. I am astonished that health insurers have not challenged this legally on the basis, inter alia, that this level of charging constitutes unjust enrichment to the public hospital.

If you have health insurance, but deny that you have it, the public hospital probably cannot do anything about that. If admitted to the public hospital I assume that you will get a bill for €80 per night [the per diem rate ?] subject to the annual maximum of €800. Otherwise, your insurer gets whacked with the "private" rate if you declare that you have cover. Is there any problem in denying existence of cover and thereafter submitting that bill [€80 per diem] to your insurers and getting them to reimburse you directly ?

Otherwise, is there any danger that if you declare details of cover that there could be any shortfall in the amount payable under your insurance ? Do, or must, all health insurers provide full cover for the per diem charge in a public hospital ?
 
You can give your health insurance details but still not sign away your rights to be treated as a public patient. That way your insurer will be charged the €80 nightly charge directly.

If there is benefit to being treated as a private patient (e.g. private or semi-private room that you wouldn't get otherwise), then obviously say you want to be treated privately.
 
DirectDevil said:
Otherwise, is there any danger that if you declare details of cover that there could be any shortfall in the amount payable under your insurance ? Do, or must, all health insurers provide full cover for the per diem charge in a public hospital ?
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I have heard of cases where an insurer declines the claim and then the hospital will pursue you for the €800ish per night and not €80 per night.
 
argentina said:
The main incentive to sign when in A&e is that if you don't sign you will be charged the €80 per night unless you have a medical card. Happened to me before ; was in A&e for hours(and hours) eventually admitted to public ward. Didn't sign as really objected to Aviva being charged €750 per night. Few weeks later got bill for €300 (€75 x 5) so did ring up and gave my health insurance details. They have you over a barrel - the €750/€800 per night is some type of 'average' of what it costs to run a hospital.
Click to expand...

If you had paid the 75 per night to the hospital, Aviva (ILH) would then refund you.
 
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