Appealing a BOI decision on Fraud

D

DaveOne

Registered User
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Hi Everyone

Long time reader, first time poster

Hoping someone can help me with a bit of advice/guidance. I was recently victim of a robbery where a <no swearing> managed to get my debit card and pin code without me being aware and withdrew well over €1200 from my account. Once I noticed, the next morning that my card was gone, I checked online banking and saw the money gone out of my account.

I cancelled the card, reported to the gards, and made a claim with Bank of Ireland. I soon found out that they had attempted 23 transactions worth a total of 5K. The bank would not tell me why they were unsuccessful in the majority of their transactions.

Bank of Ireland ruled that the person used chip and pin transaction so essentially this is not their problem and they will not refund me any losses.

I am trying to deal with BOI customer service (a special kind of painful) and appeal this decision based on
  1. This kind of behaviour is totally not reflected in my bank of Ireland user behaviour. I have probably never taken out 1000 euro in cash in a month, let alone in the middle of the night.
  2. If the person failed on the majority of the transactions why did BOI not try to contact me to confirm my identity. I have 2 factor identification set up
  3. From any CCTV or ATM machine cameras, it would be clear that it is not me using the card

Has anyone here had any experience along these lines, or even appealing a Banks decision on fraud?

Many thanks for any responses

D
 
Very sad to hear what has happened to you. It would be helpful if you could be a little more specific. You say the thieves obtained both your card and your pin. How exactly did they obtain your pin? This question might be very relevant as it might help determine whether the bank can rightfully accuse you of negligence.
 
Did you tell the bank that you were storing the PIN and the card in the same place and both were stolen?

Or did you tell the bank that the card was stolen and that the thief had a lucky first guess and went on a spree afterwards?


If it is the latter, you might have more luck with the bank.
 
On the attempted transactions - there is, I believe, a difference in fraud monitoring between card transactions where a PIN is used vs online or other transactions where it is not used ("customer not present"). There is an assumption if a PIN is used, the person with the card is the customer or has been given the information by the customer. Hence transactions not involving a PIN are quickly scanned for unusual patterns and behaviour. In my experience it is pretty sophisticated. If you had mobile and/or email attached to your account, I am guessing you received text or email messages asking if you recognised transactions.

On the cash withdrawals - the problem you will have is explaining how the person obtained your PIN. If you didn't take reasonable precautions, the bank will argue that you, in effect, caused the problem. In the same way that an insurance company will argue that leaving the car unlocked and the keys in it would mean they don't have to pay up for a robbery. So if the number was written on the card or in the wallet it will be difficult to get the bank to take responsibility. The fact that it wasn't you on the ATM video is largely irrelevant.

Persuading them that the person guessed the PIN on the first attempt is a long shot - 1 in 10,000 long shot to be exact
 
There is probably only 4 ways in which the PIN could have been harvested
  1. it was written down- your fault and bank will not accept liability
  2. recorded by a shop cashier at a counter without you knowing-almost impossible to prove
  3. Camera on an ATM- I'd argue the banks/ATM supplier fault- they may argue you did not cover your keyboard when keying
  4. Shoulder surfing- someone watched over your should when keying
I thought BOI also had a €700 daily withdrawal limit from ATM's which suggests the bank will argue the reporting of the theft was slower then it could/should have been.
 
DaveOne said:
1) This kind of behaviour is totally not reflected in my bank of Ireland user behaviour. I have probably never taken out 1000 euro in cash in a month, let alone in the middle of the night.

2) If the person failed on the majority of the transactions why did BOI not try to contact me to confirm my identity. I have 2 factor identification set up

3) From any CCTV or ATM machine cameras, it would be clear that it is not me using the card
Click to expand...

None of those are relevant points unfortunately. How did the thief get your PIN?
 
Do you know the person that did this or have you a suspicion, if so have you told the Guards, do you have a Pulse number, have you told the Bank the Garda are investigating.

I cannot see you being successful, it would defeat the purpose, nobody has my PIN number and it is not written down, it sounds like you may not have protected your pin if that is the case it will be an uphill struggle.
 
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