Appeal to landlords…consider homeless HAP

[landlord]

I am a landlord in Swords with several rental properties. I don’t consider myself a professional landlord as I have a full-time job.

Some of my rental properties are occupied by professionals, some are on the HAP scheme and others are on the homeless HAP scheme.

The number of rental properties available in Swords has dropped from a few hundred 2 or 3 years ago down to less than 10 as I write this today. I received almost 4,000 views and hundreds of emails regarding this latest daft advert in the few days it was up and I decided to give preference to someone on homeless HAP.

My latest experience with Homeless HAP has been very positive. In summary….
I contacted a housing officer within homeless HAP who organised viewings, approximately 6 groups of families came per day untill I selected the most suitable family.
Homeless HAP pay is dependent on the family size (1 adult/couple and 1 child = 1875, 1+2 = 1912 1+3 1950) any amount over these rates the tenant will have to pay separately . (I think standard HAP only pay a max of €1350 and in arrears). I am actually not sure if those figures quoted are only for Fingal county council??
I believe their is currently talk of a discretionary 35% increase on these payments. Of course your asking rent must fall within the limit of the rent pressure zone calculation.
Many of those on Homeless HAP are working and are easily able to contribute a little extra.

Homeless HAP pay the deposit and first two months rent in advance and are also offering a €500 bonus to any landlord who takes on a tenant through their home finder service.

For homeless HAP you must fill in the paper application. I already had this completed in advance. The family I finally selected also had their section completed.
A landlord must also email in a scanned copy of their tax clearance (easily found on ROS), proof of property ownership (I used a screenshot from LPT website) and a screenshot of a bank statement.

From the time I selected the family at 7 pm in the evening, contacted the references and with the assistance of the homeless HAP housing officer the next morning all the documentation was completed. Payment was made at 2pm that day. So less than 24 hours from selecting a family to payment being made. Of course I then takes a couple of working days for these funds to reach your account.

For me with the possibility of a recession on the horizon there is something to be said regarding the peace of mind of getting a huge chunk of your rental income from a guaranteed source.
There are so many families in single bedroom emergency accommodation in Ireland it also feels quite satisfying to be able to help out.
My only gripe about HAP and homeless HAP is the following…..
Let’s say your asking rent is €2000 p/month
and HAP pay the family €1912
So the tenant pays you a top up of €88p/month, which is completely separate to the HAP payments.
Within that €1912 payment from HAP to the landlord the tenant will also have to contribute something small from their social welfare payments…possibly a larger amount if they are working. If the tenant is unable or unwilling to make this additional small payment to HAP THEN ALL PAYMENTS FROM HAP TO THE LANDLORD CEASE!!
This to me is absolutely outrageous. Why in the world should a landlord be made to suffer who has done nothing wrong just because a tenant is unable or unwilling to make a small payment to HAP. Another classic example of why landlords are selling up.
However the homeless HAP housing officer did tell me this situation is extremely rare. Still, overall a very positive experience.

 

[Towger]

If the tenant is unable or unwilling to make this additional small payment to HAP THEN ALL PAYMENTS FROM HAP TO THE LANDLORD CEASE!!

This is why landlords do not want HAP tenants. The logic is the type of person on HAP has a 'chaotic' (drink, drugs, other issues etc) lifestyle and the chance of non payment is much higher than someone who can hold down a good job. If the CoCo paid directly to the landlord and collected the tenants (at source) share HAP would not have such a bad name.

 

[landlord]

The logic is the type of person on HAP has a 'chaotic' (drink, drugs, other issues etc) lifestyle and the chance of non payment is much higher than someone who can hold down a good job.

I believe this kind of stereotyping is completely unfair. It shows great prejudice and is liable to get you into trouble with the moderators on this site.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I am a landlord in Swords with several rental properties. I don’t consider myself a professional landlord as I have a full-time job.

Some of my rental properties are occupied by professionals, some are on the HAP scheme and others are on the homeless HAP scheme.

The number of rental properties available in Swords has dropped from a few hundred 2 or 3 years ago down to less than 10 as I write this today. I received almost 4,000 views and hundreds of emails regarding this latest daft advert in the few days it was up and I decided to give preference to someone on homeless HAP.

My latest experience with Homeless HAP has been very positive. In summary….
I contacted a housing officer within homeless HAP who organised viewings, approximately 6 groups of families came per day untill I selected the most suitable family.
Homeless HAP pay is dependent on the family size (1 adult/couple and 1 child = 1875, 1+2 = 1912 1+3 1950) any amount over these rates the tenant will have to pay separately . (I think standard HAP only pay a max of €1350 and in arrears). I am actually not sure if those figures quoted are only for Fingal county council??
I believe their is currently talk of a discretionary 35% increase on these payments. Of course your asking rent must fall within the limit of the rent pressure zone calculation.
Many of those on Homeless HAP are working and are easily able to contribute a little extra.

Homeless HAP pay the deposit and first two months rent in advance and are also offering a €500 bonus to any landlord who takes on a tenant through their home finder service.

For homeless HAP you must fill in the paper application. I already had this completed in advance. The family I finally selected also had their section completed.
A landlord must also email in a scanned copy of their tax clearance (easily found on ROS), proof of property ownership (I used a screenshot from LPT website) and a screenshot of a bank statement.

From the time I selected the family at 7 pm in the evening, contacted the references and with the assistance of the homeless HAP housing officer the next morning all the documentation was completed. Payment was made at 2pm that day. So less than 24 hours from selecting a family to payment being made. Of course I then takes a couple of working days for these funds to reach your account.

For me with the possibility of a recession on the horizon there is something to be said regarding the peace of mind of getting a huge chunk of your rental income from a guaranteed source.
There are so many families in single bedroom emergency accommodation in Ireland it also feels quite satisfying to be able to help out.
My only gripe about HAP and homeless HAP is the following…..
Let’s say your asking rent is €2000 p/month
and HAP pay the family €1912
So the tenant pays you a top up of €88p/month, which is completely separate to the HAP payments.
Within that €1912 payment from HAP to the landlord the tenant will also have to contribute something small from their social welfare payments…possibly a larger amount if they are working. If the tenant is unable or unwilling to make this additional small payment to HAP THEN ALL PAYMENTS FROM HAP TO THE LANDLORD CEASE!!
This to me is absolutely outrageous. Why in the world should a landlord be made to suffer who has done nothing wrong just because a tenant is unable or unwilling to make a small payment to HAP. Another classic example of why landlords are selling up.
However the homeless HAP housing officer did tell me this situation is extremely rare. Still, overall a very positive experience.

I admire your altruism however experience has me disagreeing with you .

We rented to a very nice lady whose family situation was quite dire and she needed a place and we reduced the rent from €1200 to €1000 per month to accommodate her, we even registered the tenancy for 3 years with the RTB and we were comfortable with the arrangements.

18 months into the lease she upped and left, giving 6 days notice, we said ok and we would return her deposit after final inspection, she was gone when we inspected and it was an absolute mess, including dog poo in many rooms , despite we expressing explicitly that no pets were to be in the house all day, there was a garden and we bought a kennel for her .

The basic cleaning of the house, including painting, replacing broken blinds , lighting etc cost 7500, add in 3 months rent we made nothing off that tenancy, after tax, and repairs, it cost another €1450 to dispose of her " junk".

While we are the type who will assist those who need help this experience left a very bad taste in our mouths and we will not do it again.

 

[Leo]

If the tenant is unable or unwilling to make this additional small payment to HAP THEN ALL PAYMENTS FROM HAP TO THE LANDLORD CEASE!!
This to me is absolutely outrageous. Why in the world should a landlord be made to suffer who has done nothing wrong just because a tenant is unable or unwilling to make a small payment to HAP. Another classic example of why landlords are selling up.

The local authorities have proven themselves ineffective at collecting means-tested rents for a number of reasons not all of their own making. The whole HAP scheme is a means of transferring this burden to the private sector, and in particular small time landlords who are even worse equipped to deal with non-payment.

 

[landlord]

I admire your altruism however experience has me disagreeing with you .

Just out of curiosity was your tenant on HAP or homeless HAP?
I only ask because there are added advantages to taking a homeless HAP tenant over a HAP tenant. For example. Much higher rents available and therefore much higher deposits available. €500 bonus payment. The extra rent and deposit may have given you some more protection.
Also the first two months rent and deposit is paid in advance.
Of course your terrible experience could’ve happened with someone who was not on the HAP scheme as well.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Just out of curiosity was your tenant on HAP or homeless HAP?
I only ask because there are added advantages to taking a homeless HAP tenant over a HAP tenant. For example. Much higher rents available and therefore much higher deposits available. €500 bonus payment. The extra rent and deposit may have given you some more protection.
Also the first two months rent and deposit is paid in advance.
Of course your terrible experience could’ve happened with someone who was not on the HAP scheme as well.

Well she was running from a situation and had been " sheltered " with her children, that was the story and we got verification.

However I was informed later from others I know, that the veracity of her story came into question and the Co-Co contacted us after she had left saying they had paid her 3 months which nobody ever saw again. They knew a new tenancy with new tenants was drawn up 3 months later, not on HAP but these people were using council accommodation prior to moving.

Look, I really hope you're experience is satisfying and it goes well, and again I admire your willingness to offer your properties.

 

[The Horseman]

Just out of curiosity was your tenant on HAP or homeless HAP?
I only ask because there are added advantages to taking a homeless HAP tenant over a HAP tenant. For example. Much higher rents available and therefore much higher deposits available. €500 bonus payment. The extra rent and deposit may have given you some more protection.
Also the first two months rent and deposit is paid in advance.
Of course your terrible experience could’ve happened with someone who was not on the HAP scheme as well.

While there is indeed a risk from those not on HAP the chances of it happened is reduced because they have "more skin in the game" ie they themselves have paid the deposit and risk losing it.

 

[noproblem]

I believe this kind of stereotyping is completely unfair. It shows great prejudice and is liable to get you into trouble with the moderators on this site.

I disagree with you and even reading your own post suggests it's not far off the mark. Strange that you should come across as being upset by it. I too tried to help people on HAP but would never do so again for many of the reasons given above.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

The local authorities have proven themselves ineffective at collecting means-tested rents for a number of reasons not all of their own making. The whole HAP scheme is a means of transferring this burden to the private sector, and in particular small time landlords who are even worse equipped to deal with non-payment.

There was a legislative proposal in 2014 to allow local authorities and AHBs to deduct arrears from welfare payments.

As far as I can tell it was never enacted.

 

[landlord]

person on HAP has a 'chaotic' (drink, drugs, other issues etc) lifestyle

I disagree with you and even reading your own post suggests it's not far off the mark. Strange that you should come across as being upset by it. I too tried to help people on HAP but would never do so again for many of the reasons given above.

Please let me know where in my original post I infer that someone on HAP has a lifestyle similar to that suggested by Towger.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Please let me know where in my original post I infer that someone on HAP has a lifestyle similar to that suggested by Towger.

You didn't and I'm sure the majority of homeless are fantastic people and I personally do think that it was a slight/ terrible post by the other poster, the language used wasn't pleasant, but his point was valid.

Many of us have rented out to HAP eligible tenants and as I described above, the "hope " of doing the right thing is something I believe in, but the reality does knock the view on its head.

"Experience is the mother of skill"

 

[noproblem]

Please let me know where in my original post I infer that someone on HAP has a lifestyle similar to that suggested by Towger.

I never actually said you suggested the above. You agreed that people who owned property and were not paid what was due by the HAP tenant was unfair and that they were unfairly treated under HAP. Another thing to take note of is the last comment in your post about the housing officer telling you that the instances of non payment was very rare. From experience I can assure you that the comment is very, very, far from being true. I wish you all the luck in the world with your "part time rental hobby" with several properties. Sorry if you picked up my reply to you in the wrong way, but that's your take on it, not mine. See below;"

landlord;
"If the tenant is unable or unwilling to make this additional small payment to HAP THEN ALL PAYMENTS FROM HAP TO THE LANDLORD CEASE!!
This to me is absolutely outrageous. Why in the world should a landlord be made to suffer who has done nothing wrong just because a tenant is unable or unwilling to make a small payment to HAP. Another classic example of why landlords are selling up". However the homeless HAP housing officer did tell me this situation is extremely rare."

 

[The Horseman]

I never actually said you suggested the above. You agreed that people who owned property and were not paid what was due by the HAP tenant was unfair and that they were unfairly treated under HAP. Another thing to take note of is the last comment in your post about the housing officer telling you that the instances of non payment was very rare. From experience I can assure you that the comment is very, very, far from being true. I wish you all the luck in the world with your "part time rental hobby" with several properties. Sorry if you picked up my reply to you in the wrong way, but that's your take on it, not mine. See below;"

landlord;
"If the tenant is unable or unwilling to make this additional small payment to HAP THEN ALL PAYMENTS FROM HAP TO THE LANDLORD CEASE!!
This to me is absolutely outrageous. Why in the world should a landlord be made to suffer who has done nothing wrong just because a tenant is unable or unwilling to make a small payment to HAP. Another classic example of why landlords are selling up". However the homeless HAP housing officer did tell me this situation is extremely rare."

The last line of this spoke volumes. The housing officer is hardly going to say yeah non payment is an issue.

The fact the housing officer said non payment is rare is in itself a red flag to me. Why did he feel the need to say that?

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

The last line of this spoke volumes. The housing officer is hardly going to say yeah non payment is an issue.

The fact the housing officer said non payment is rare is in itself a red flag to me. Why did he feel the need to say that?

Box ticking by the Housing officer perhaps,

 

[landlord]

I do agree that the housing officers comment regarding the number of HAP tenants unable or unwilling to pay should be taken with a pinch of salt for obvious reasons, however my experience and those of friends who have tenants on HAP are all positive (possibly due to luck or good selection…. I like to think good selection)
The housing officer only mentioned the fact that non payment is rare, because I thoroughly quizzed him on the subject after remembering several posts I had read on this subject on askaboutmoney.com over the years.
Either way I fully respect each and every poster who brings up a HAP horror story they have had over the years, but it does not follow that you can stereotype a HAP tenant….

has a 'chaotic' (drink, drugs, other issues etc) lifestyle and the chance of non payment is much higher than someone who can hold down a good job.

On the subject of good selection of tenants I am a little obsessive over this…..
Of course you cannot legally ask a perspective tenant if they are working or on HAP anymore, but you can ask for the tenant to provide ALL references and base your selection on what they have provided. For me a phone call to the person providing the reference is worth it’s weight in gold.

 

[The Horseman]

I do agree that the housing officers comment regarding the number of HAP tenants unable or unwilling to pay should be taken with a pinch of salt for obvious reasons, however my experience and those of friends who have tenants on HAP are all positive (possibly due to luck or good selection…. I like to think good selection)
The housing officer only mentioned the fact that non payment is rare, because I thoroughly quizzed him on the subject after remembering several posts I had read on this subject on askaboutmoney.com over the years.
Either way I fully respect each and every poster who brings up a HAP horror story they have had over the years, but it does not follow that you can stereotype a HAP tenant….


On the subject of good selection of tenants I am a little obsessive over this…..
Of course you cannot legally ask a perspective tenant if they are working or on HAP anymore, but you can ask for the tenant to provide ALL references and base your selection on what they have provided. For me a phone call to the person providing the reference is worth it’s weight in gold.

The risk with a HAP tenant is more than with a non HAP tenant. I myself am a landlord for a good number of years and have had both HAP and non HAP tenants and have found the HAP tenants to be more demanding.

I use the term "demanding" intentionally. Within days of commencing a tenancy I have had requests to change beds, mattresses, curtains and even on one occasion a carpet. I have had situations were I rent to a single mother and her children and then all of a sudden the father of said children appears or a new boyfriend appears and moves into the property.

I have also had situations where pets just suddenly appear.

You are more likely to come up against a tenant on HAP who "know my rights" (which ironically they are not their rights at all) but the council, homeless charity told them they are you then have the issue of going along the formal route to prove to evict them etc.

Whether you or others accept it the private landlord is the big bad wolf. It suits all parties involved to portray the small private landlord in that way.

I am delighted you and your counterparts have not encountered issues with HAP tenants but I suspect you or your counterparts will at some point.

In terms of making a telephone call to a work place for a reference I personally never ring the mobile number given. I will always ring the switch of the company and ask to be put through to whoever has signed the lease and verify that they hold the position in the company that they have on the reference.

 

[Sconeandjam]

The risk with a HAP tenant is more than with a non HAP tenant. I myself am a landlord for a good number of years and have had both HAP and non HAP tenants and have found the HAP tenants to be more demanding.

I use the term "demanding" intentionally. Within days of commencing a tenancy I have had requests to change beds, mattresses, curtains and even on one occasion a carpet. I have had situations were I rent to a single mother and her children and then all of a sudden the father of said children appears or a new boyfriend appears and moves into the property.

I have also had situations where pets just suddenly appear.

You are more likely to come up against a tenant on HAP who "know my rights" (which ironically they are not their rights at all) but the council, homeless charity told them they are you then have the issue of going along the formal route to prove to evict them etc.

Whether you or others accept it the private landlord is the big bad wolf. It suits all parties involved to portray the small private landlord in that way.

I am delighted you and your counterparts have not encountered issues with HAP tenants but I suspect you or your counterparts will at some point.

In terms of making a telephone call to a work place for a reference I personally never ring the mobile number given. I will always ring the switch of the company and ask to be put through to whoever has signed the lease and verify that they hold the position in the company that they have on the reference.

Agreed with the above. I got phone calls on Saturday night telling me to replace a single bed for a 7 year old because the child’s friends dived on the bed and broke the base. Every year ask to paint the inside and outside, new carpets In the bedrooms and stairs. Want a 9 kg washing machine because the 8 was not big enough. Wanted electric cooker because they were not used to gas. You don’t even to that in your own home.

The council are delighted if you take a HAP tenant. Tenant does not pay the council pays you nothing and the council does not have to house the tenant. Win win for the council. You ring the council they say they cannot talk to you due to gdpr and you have to go through the Rtb process. In the mean time you have to wait until Rtb and then maybe the courts do their thing. If you try to get the rent from their benefits that is impossible as there is a minimum they are supposed to live on Is what they are getting. UK is different. Money will be taken from wages and benefits.

 

[bipped]

Agreed with the above. I got phone calls on Saturday night telling me to replace a single bed for a 7 year old because the child’s friends dived on the bed and broke the base. Every year ask to paint the inside and outside, new carpets In the bedrooms and stairs. Want a 9 kg washing machine because the 8 was not big enough. Wanted electric cooker because they were not used to gas. You don’t even to that in your own home.

Why do landlords replace furniture that is broken by a tenant? The RTA says a landlord's obligation is to carry out repairs to the structure and to maintain or repair the interior fittings, I would have thought that means the kitchen and bathroom fittings, plus heating and plumbing system, electrics, floors, walls, doors, ceilings etc. It doesn't mention furniture anywhere. The only items a landlord is required to supply is white goods in the kitchen so if they break down, then they need to be repaired but if the tenant caused the problem, are they not responsible?

 

[Towger]

Replace and hope to deduct it from their deposit, when they leave... Or else they might stop paying! To be honest we look at it as a cost or doing business, they break a bed, we buy Bargain Towns cheapest offering to replace it. Destroy a carpet, walls or wreck the couch, we don't worry too much as long as they keep paying their rent. I would prefer to rent bare units, but the old man thinks otherwise. He even wants to supply TVs, as they are now cheap. I told him he must be mad and I was not doing technical support/replacing when broken. What worries me is structural damage, leaks not being reported or the place on fire etc. We have had three units set on fire by tenants over the years and plenty of other stories. The problem is landlords not treating it as a business, but taking issues personally. Often because they are renting their former home. In saying we are moving into commercial, still plenty of excitement.