Apartment block sharing my home's mains water connection

[Noodler]

I have a weird situation that suddenly escalated when I tried to resolve it.

I live in a house that has some shoddy rental apartments behind it, that were probably built around 20 years ago. I've been having issues with variable water pressure and it turns out that although I am properly connected to the mains, these apartments have water pipes that are connected to my house and are tapping into the water supply. They do not have their own mains connection.

There have been water issues in the past and the landlord has sent his tenants to complain to me, making me answerable to tenants who are not mine. The tenants themselves are very nice, but I have repeatedly given them my number to pass on to the landlord. He has never called.

Today, I paid a visit to his office in person. I explained the issue I was having and asked if he could call Irish Water to see about resolving matters. I explained that IW had told me that if I have a shared supply, then the logical way to resolve the pressure issues is to stop the shared connection. I explained that I did not want to do this without discussing the matter with him, obviously. I did not want to leave his tenants without water.

He basically exploded on me for what he saw as me "threatening" him. He told me he'd be immediately serving eviction notices to his tenants, and that it would be because of me. I quickly got out of there, but left my phone number.

He later called me to threaten me with legal action if I did anything to imperil his "revenue stream". It was absolutely bonkers. I hung up on him.

I've talked to Irish Water, but they can only help so much as this is a "private matter". The suggestion was made (and this is likely accurate) that the property itself probably requires costly remediation in order to have a connection from the mains - and that this is likely why the request has provoked such an extreme reaction.

Any suggestions on what my next move could be? I just want normal water pressure in my house, but I can't compel this horrendous landlord to take action...or can I? Is it even legal for rental properties not to have a mains water connection?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

 

[BlackandBlue]

Curious,

these apartments have water pipes that are connected to my house and are tapping into the water supply.

Are they actually connected to your house or to the water pipe outside?

How long has your house been there?
How long have the apartments been there?

Who built your house?
Who built the apartments?
Were they constructed at the same time?


What does the planning say about the water connection for your house?
What does the planning say about the water connection for the apartments?

 

[Clamball]

I would probably get an engineer who specialises in water/sewer lines to consult for you. They should be able to confirm the actual connections and then advise you on the correct planning regulations around water connections.

After that you will be in a better position to know your next steps.

Your neighbourly land lord sounds insane so I would only communicate to him via writing in the future.

 

[Noodler]

Are they actually connected to your house or to the water pipe outside?

There is a connection through my attic, they are connected to my house.

How long has your house been there?

Almost 200 years.

How long have the apartments been there?

Probably 20-30 years. It looks like the land was previously under the same ownership, and was then split.

Who built your house?

Hmmmm, the Brits probably!

Who built the apartments?

Some cowboys by the looks of it, I'm not sure.

Were they constructed at the same time?

Most definitely not!

What does the planning say about the water connection for your house?

I have a mains water connection with a stopcock outside.

What does the planning say about the water connection for the apartments?

Nothing. I only realised this after buying/moving in.

 

[8till8]

I think you have two choices;

1) Go formal route, so as previously mentioned get an engineer to survey the property and report their findings, then bring the report to a solicitor to see what your rights are and how to enforce a change of water connection -- all the cost will probably be on you.

2) Find a decent plumber to survey the problem and see if there is a practical solution e.g. increase your pipe diameter to get more pressure and decrease their pipe diameter so you get the best pressure.

 

[Noodler]

Ok so, solution 2 is genius - I hadn't thought about that. To not completely cut off supply, but decrease the pipe diameter. Thank you.

What about reporting it to my local authority? From what I can see, the minimum standards for rental accommodation requires a "sink with mains water supply".

 

[joe sod]

2) Find a decent plumber to survey the problem and see if there is a practical solution e.g. increase your pipe diameter to get more pressure and decrease their pipe diameter so you get the best pressure.

even simpler solution just put in a simple tap valve or gate valve onto the connection out of your property, if the pressure is dropping in your property just close the valve more to reduce water out, like turning a tap for slow water and opening it for fast water flow, its as simple as that. What would have happened anyway if water charges came in that situation, the previous owner would have shut off the outward supply from the property completely

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

Are they actually connected to your house or to the water pipe outside?

There is a connection through my attic, they are connected to my house.

So a pipe runs from the mains to your attic, back to ground level again (?), and then to the apartments, right?

What did your surveyor say about this when you bought the house?

 

[ClubMan]

I don't understand what's stopping you from disconnecting/disabling the supply from your attic to the external apartments if you so choose? It's your attic.

 

[Noodler]

So a pipe runs from the mains to your attic, back to ground level again (?), and then to the apartments, right?

What did your surveyor say about this when you bought the house?

It's a bit hard to explain the layout here, it's an unusual structure. The surveyor noted a pipe at the time but didn't think it was active as it looked like an odd relic.

Regardless, I am where I am.

I don't understand what's stopping you from disconnecting/disabling the supply from your attic to the external apartments if you so choose? It's your attic.

This is what Irish Water kind of suggested, without explicitly stating it. But I don't know about the legalities of doing this, and obviously I'd prefer a peaceful resolution that doesn't screw the tenants.

This percieved threat is what the lunatic landlord was reacting to. He said his apartments have a right to water and if I do anything he'll file an injunction...or sue me or something. I stopped listening at that point and hung up.

 

[Noodler]

even simpler solution just put in a simple tap valve or gate valve onto the connection out of your property, if the pressure is dropping in your property just close the valve more to reduce water out, like turning a tap for slow water and opening it for fast water flow, its as simple as that. What would have happened anyway if water charges came in that situation, the previous owner would have shut off the outward supply from the property completely

Thanks I don't want to have to adjust a valve regularly, I'd probably just leave it as is at a certain level.

Yes you're right, if water meters were ever activated this would have certainly changed things a while ago.

Oddly enough, Irish Water installed several phantom water meters outside the apartments - connected to nothing. Yet no water meter was ever installed outside my home, despite it actually being connected. What a ridiculous waste of money!

 

[Micks'r]

I would speak with my solicitor about this right away ... due to the passage of time and no arrangement in place, has an easement already been established I wonder?

 

[50andOut]

I'd be doing whatever necessary to officially lodge an objection and formally request the removal of this set up with engineers / solicitors as recommended above.

Failing the immediate permanent removal and I would be requesting an ongoing maintenance fee to be paid for the usage.

Echo above comment, the landlord sounds nuts so I would make it all formal and via solicitors do not engage directly. Also do not entertain any tenants questioning you push them back to the landlord directly.

 

[rustbucket]

If it’s coming from your attic then you are supplying them with water.

Fabricate some story about needing to replace your water tank in attic. Get plumber to disconnect any unnecessary pipe work. Not your problem.

If your house collapsed or went on fire they would have no water supply. If you signifanctky renovated your home they would have no water supply.

Landlords responsibility to ensure his properties are correctly connected to a water supply.

If it was me I’d cut it.

What if it were an electricity or gas connection?

 

[BlackandBlue]

Landlords responsibility to ensure his properties are correctly connected to a water supply.

They are connected to a mains supply. Its just via the OP's house.

Its not simply a case of

Get plumber to disconnect any unnecessary pipe work. Not your problem.

This is a bit more complex/convoluted than that.

It would appear that the original owner gave themselves the permission to do this.

How long have the apartments been there?

Probably 20-30 years. It looks like the land was previously under the same ownership, and was then split.

I would echo the comment about getting proper legal advice on this one. As this has been in place for around 20/30 years.

 

[rustbucket]

Is it connected to your attic tank or the mains supply pipe going to your attic tank?

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

It's a bit hard to explain the layout here, it's an unusual structure. The surveyor noted a pipe at the time but didn't think it was active as it looked like an odd relic.

It's not so relevant I know but this looks like something a surveyor should have spotted especially in light of the below.

Probably 20-30 years. It looks like the land was previously under the same ownership, and was then split.

How close are the apartments to your property? Were the house and apartments part of the same complex (shared access, no boundary wall, etc). Is there a boundary wall now?

For sure this should be remediated but bear in mind it may not be possible without disruption to your own access and garden depending on where the water main is.

Likewise, does their wastewater pipe run through your property as well? This can cause problems if there are blockages and could be expensive to remediate.

 

[Noodler]

Thanks for all these suggestions.

I should note that the building is attached to the back of mine, but it faces onto public road. Connecting to the mains would not require work under my house. Their resistance is likely due to problems with the building itself, and the costly remediation required.

During a previous water outage, a DCC inspector dropped by and stated that the apartments had an illegal connection. However nobody in DCC can deal with this, and when speaking to them today they directed me back to Irish Water. But Irish Water say this is not their responsibility as their connection to my house is fine.

It's bizarre that someone can have an illegal connection, but there is no mechanism for enforcement beyond me splashing out on solicitor fees.

I'll be getting someone to inspect the connection this week and tell me more about the set up.

A DCC staff member also advised that I should speak to a local TD, so I might do that too.

 

[Leo]

It's bizarre that someone can have an illegal connection, but there is no mechanism for enforcement beyond me splashing out on solicitor fees.

It's only illegal if it was installed without the permission of the property owner at the time. I think it's highly unlikely that was the case. Your guess at when the apartments were build suggests you were not the owner at the time and so without any evidence of trespass, at this point you can only assume that permission was granted. The former owner should have ensured the arrangement was formalised, their failure to do so is now your problem.

With that you can't just unilaterally shut it off. I'd be talking to a solicitor familiar in these matters as a priority.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

First you said:

I live in a house that has some shoddy rental apartments behind it

Now you say:

I should note that the building is attached to the back of mine,

So you bought a property with a large extension attached to it owned by a third party! This is pretty non-standard and your surveyor and solicitor should have raised some of the pitfalls here when you purchased.

But Irish Water say this is not their responsibility as their connection to my house is fine.

Indeed they are correct. This kind of set-up is not uncommon in Ireland given the fact that water has traditionally never been metered and it's often simpler to tap into an existing connection than make a new connection to the public main.

There is a solution here. But I think you will have to shoulder some of the costs on this as you bought into this situation with your eyes open. IANAL but if there is a long-standing arrangement you cannot unilaterally cut off a whole building's water supply simply because it passes through your house and you are not being billed for it.

A DCC staff member also advised that I should speak to a local TD, so I might do that too.

Don't be annoying TDs with this stuff, they have enough to do. This is a civil matter between you and the apartment owner and you need good-quality legal and technical advice.