Any suggestions for dealing with very long threads which go off topic, often pointlessly?

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Brendan Burgess

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First of all, I think that there is less acrimony and tedious debate on askaboutmoney than there is on most other discussions boards.

But even still, interesting discussions often go way off topic and end up in bitter debates between two people which turns everyone else off.

I would put these into three classes

1) Factual questions where someone wants advice or an answer.
The mods take a fairly interventionist approach to these. If I want to know about the CGT implications of something, I don't want a long debate on the merits of CGT or whether Sinn Féin will be in government in a few years.

2) Letting Off Steam - no need for action.
If you want to enter this forum, you do so at your own risk. Obviously, the normal Posting Guidelines apply - no offensive posts, etc.
The forum was designed to take the non-financial stuff out of the main forums and I think it achieves this objective fairly well.

3) The serious issues
Steven raised an interesting issue here:

But it was reported as yet another boring argument between Tommy and Purple which turns everyone else off . And the reporter wanted the mods to split out their debate into a separate thread.

I just closed the thread, as it would require a huge amount of work to split it. If we get in early on a thread, it can be split off, but it's still work. But there is no way we can split a 7 page thread.


It's hard for the moderators to get the balance right. We don't like deleting posts but will do so if they are off topic. People take offence, but we have to live with that. The worst is probably when someone makes a valid point early in thread but then makes an off-topic aside which we know will wreck the thread. We deleted the entire post. The Poster complains that we should have edited their post but that is too much work.

My own approach as a reader
I rarely read a thread past the second page. There is usually nothing new.
Unless I find it entertaining which the Duke vs. tecate on Bitcoin sometimes are.
Of course, if I have started a thread or it's something I am involved in, I will stay past the second page, but then maybe I am arguing with someone and boring everyone else.
 
I am looking for suggestions on how to deal with Category 3.

Interesting threads that go off-topic and often end up in one-to-one arguments about nothing.

Brendan
 
I know we still have permissions issues with uploading documents, or at least I still have, but how about giving the thread starter permission to close "his/her" thread once their question is answered?

I have no suggestion to make if the starter is embroiled or invested in the debates, but how about that suggestion as a starting point? PM to starter "Click this button to close the thread if your question has been answered". Mods can still reopen threads if asked or if necessary.
 
I think you can sterilize a discussion by being to focused on not moving outside the perimeters.

There was merits to the SinnFein discussion and implications to Landlords, which was closed prematurely i think.

How about a 3 strike rule, if your responsible for the closing of a thread due to being way off the topic, the 3rd infringement could be suspension from posting for a given time frame.
 
I am looking for suggestions on how to deal with Category 3.

Interesting threads that go off-topic and often end up in one-to-one arguments about nothing.

Brendan
It's very simple, Brendan. Posters should be expected to refrain from contentious and unfalsifiable comments that are likely to generate acrimony, eg that brokers are crooked, that accountants don't need to pass a test in ethics and they only engage in ethical behaviour because it's expedient, or that building industry professionals who worked on defective buildings 15-20 years ago should now be jailed.

Posters who repeatedly engage in this form of trolling should be warned to desist and ultimately if they fail to do so, they should be banned.

Your description of the BER thread as a spat between myself and another person is inaccurate by the way. There were others involved. I for one make no apology for seeking to correct any false and misleading statements whenever they're made on these pages.
 
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I know we still have permissions issues with uploading documents, or at least I still have, but how about giving the thread starter permission to close "his/her" thread once their question is answered?

I have no suggestion to make if the starter is embroiled or invested in the debates, but how about that suggestion as a starting point? PM to starter "Click this button to close the thread if your question has been answered". Mods can still reopen threads if asked or if necessary.
I fear that would be a dangerous function on a site like this. For example, someone poses a question say on a technical point of banking, tax or law. Gets a response, with which they're happy, so they close the thread. Others, more specifically knowledgeable in that field, later come across that thread, know that the OP has received bad or misleading guidance, but are unable either to point that out or to offer a better response of their own.
 
I'm not sure it's fixable without strangling honest debate. You will always have a mix of know-it-alls, both sufferable and insufferable, wiseacres, the cocksure, the clueless and others, so you are bound to have meandering threads. Might a time delay before one can make a subsequent post on a given thread take the edge off? Generally I think AAM gets it about right.
 
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I am looking for suggestions on how to deal with Category 3.
Interesting threads that go off-topic and often end up in one-to-one arguments about nothing.

Without trying to offend the moderators but could a simple solution be as simple as the mods moderating
It seemed obvious to me in the BER thread which way the discussion was going to go from posts in the middle 50 range
A simple warning from a mod to say "Back on topic" should have been enough to put the discussion back on topic
 
You will always have a mix of know-it-alls, both sufferable and insufferable, wiseacres, the cocksure, the clueless and others, so you are bound to have meandering threads.

Do nothing is always an option. I know it might be a pain for the mods but these threads usually die a natural death anyway. if someone is so bored by a thread that has gone off tangent, why are they reading it?

IMHO this is exactly what we don't want as it puts people off using askaboutmoney.
 
It's very simple, Brendan. Posters should be expected to refrain from contentious and unfalsifiable comments that are likely to generate acrimony ....

........ Posters who repeatedly engage in this form of trolling should be warned to desist and ultimately if they fail to do so, they should be banned.

While I'm supportive of this, it seems likely to impose more work on the Moderators who are volunteers and may not welcome the increased workload.
 
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I think the easiest option is if users use the report post button. I've done it a few times where a thread was being derailed by a squabble.
Other option as Steven Barrett suggests is a button that would actually show up in the thread without the user being sanctioned for back seat modding. Or allow comments like "Would you two take your spat elsewhere"
 
I would concur that some people are more knowledgeable on certain topics and others are not. This is the nature of this forum, however some threads do indeed go way off topic with little or no consequences for doing so.

Some posts appear to be used by posters who "have an axe to grind" and direct the thread towards that rather than the actual subject of the thread.

I personally would be in favour of suspending posters for a duration who either derail a thread or appear to be trolling (both at the mods discretion).
 
There was merits to the SinnFein discussion and implications to Landlords, which was closed prematurely i think.

But it has been discussed multiple times in multiple threads.

This thread has 13 pages on it.


Do we really need other threads?

You could post a link to that longer thread so that the discussion is not rehashed.

Brendan
 
I think the easiest option is if users use the report post button. I've done it a few times where a thread was being derailed by a squabble.

If someone reports an off-topic post early in the thread, we can zap it and the responses.

But if they wait until 7 pages have gone, it's too late to go through them and delete them so the only option is to close the thread.

Brendan
 
I know I've been guilty a few times but nothing is ever meant to be nasty or over the top.
Maybe a red button, whereby if myself or someone else gets a total of 3 buttons we have to cease commenting or we get 1/or more weeks suspension. I don't know if this would be time consuming or not, if so apologies for silliness.
 
It's not a solution for moderators, but my user experience went way up once I started hitting the "ignore" button for certain posters.

I'm much less likely to get sucked into back and forth when I just don't see the responses.
 
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