And we thought the Catholic Church was meant to be Christian

Bronte said:
BTW what schools require a baptismal certificate from the Roman Catholic Church for entry?
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No school bars non-Catholics from entry, but many schools do prioritise RC children over other kids. So if the school is over-subscribed, the non-Catholics will not get a place.
 
Firefly said:
Hi Truth,

Have I got this right...the Catholic Church funds (even partially) primary schools? I would have thought they would be receiving money from the state in return for providing teaching services?
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Thats my understanding of it alright.
The church and state need to be seperated.

As Complainer says above - the RC children are prioritised - as the schools are RC schools (just look at the names of local schools - Saint this or that).
 
Then its simple - time to break the link between the RC church and the education system.
 
annR said:
I feel sorry for the innocent priests who have had their life's work tainted by it
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There's the rub. The excuse given before was that they were not aware the abuse was going on. Well now they do. By staying silent they are somewhat complicit IMO. Those "innocent" priests should have by now walked out en masse (pardon the pun).
 
Theres a bit of blurb about state funded schools on citizeninformation.ie

The types of schools available

The Irish primary education sector consists of state-funded primary schools, special schools and private primary schools. State-funded primary schools used to be known as national schools and you may still hear this term being used. State-funded schools include religious schools, multi-denominational schools and Gaelscoileanna, which are schools that teach the curriculum through the Irish language. You can view a list of State-funded primary schools in Ireland on the Department of Education's website here.
Religion in Irish schools

Most Irish primary schools are under the management of one denomination or another and the majority of these are Roman Catholic. There is, however, a growing choice of schools of other denominations and of multi-denominational schools.
Schools that cater for a single religion may give priority to children of that religion but they will also admit children with other religious beliefs, or none. Children do not have to attend religion classes and you may choose to withdraw your child from such classes if you wish.
Regardless of religion, all primary schools operate under similar rules. The main differences relate to the appointment of the principal of the school and the choice of teacher representatives on the Board of Management.
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So - state funded schools include religious schools - which get some funding from the church. And which would be far more common than multi-denominational or Gaelscoileanna schools.
 
truthseeker said:
So - state funded schools include religious schools - which get some funding from the church.
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This sounds so wrong now doesn't it? As the church were funding the schools they obviously felt they could run them as they saw fit...almost like they were entitled to abuse children.
 
It is certainly time for the church and state to be separated. The schools would be a good place to start. Its amazing that in this day and age the RC church is running the vast majority of the primary schools in this country. I have no problem with schools with a religious ethos discriminating in favour of those of that faith. But in my opinion the vast majority of primary schools in the state should be secular. Religious education should be outside the state curriculum. As Inspector Charmers mentioned in a Simpson's episode once 'God has no place within these walls'.

Interesting article

[broken link removed]
 
Firefly said:
This sounds so wrong now doesn't it? As the church were funding the schools they obviously felt they could run them as they saw fit...almost like they were entitled to abuse children.
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The reality is that even the religious schools are 100% funded by the State except for some parents fund raising. The entire staff are on a State payroll, the buildings were built by the State, the consumables are bought by the State etc. etc.

What I object to is that the State builds these schools, staffs them and then hands them over to a religious "Patron" free of charge. Why do we need the "Patron" in the picture at all? And legally speaking, the assets belong to the Patron not the State - the Patron could evict the school and sell up any time they want to without the State getting a cent in return.

And how can the State allow partonage from religious organisations that have harboured paedos? Surely its against the law? It appears that one set of laws applies to ordinary citizens working with children and another set applies to the church? Surely the RC is now ineligible to run anything to do with children as it is contrary to the State's child protection rules?
 
truthseeker said:
............
So - state funded schools include religious schools - which get some funding from the church. ..............
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This statement is unintentionally misleading. The funding comes from the catholics who give x amount to the church. The church then keeps some for itself and dispenses the rest, after the vatican's tallyman gives it the once over, taking the kudos for so doing. Middlemen probably best describes this type of operation. So the funding = (x-vatican's take). In this way the catholic church has become extremely wealthy and is a long way from what Christ started.
 
csirl said:
What I object to is that the State builds these schools, staffs them and then hands them over to a religious "Patron" free of charge. Why do we need the "Patron" in the picture at all? And legally speaking, the assets belong to the Patron not the State - the Patron could evict the school and sell up any time they want to without the State getting a cent in return.

And how can the State allow partonage from religious organisations that have harboured paedos? Surely its against the law? It appears that one set of laws applies to ordinary citizens working with children and another set applies to the church? Surely the RC is now ineligible to run anything to do with children as it is contrary to the State's child protection rules?
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+1

But is it true that the 'Patron' actually holds legal ownership of the properties ?
 
Explanation here

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...o-primary-school/ownership-of-primary-schools

The way I understand it is that the vast majority of primary schools are owned by the catholic church but in the case of new primary schools, the ownership is dependant on who paid for the site the school is built on.

The fact of the matter is the RC church is intrinsically linked to the majority of primary schools and it will be next to impossible to break this link without their consent as they own the majority of these schools. These schools and the compulsory patron's half hour per day is one of the reasons why the RC church is so ingrained in the Irish culture so don't expect them to give it up.
 
My European history is patchy but Henry the Eight did not have much of a problem with title. :)
 
RMCF said:
Then its simple - time to break the link between the RC church and the education system.
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Not before time. Again, pretty easy to cut the energy link to this cancer. Stop funding it.
 
So if you're a parent in Ireland, where 90% of primary schools are Roman Catholic you have actually no choice, in most cases, but to send your child to a Roman Catholic school?

A school which is owned by the Church, where it is run by the Church, where your child will be forced to attend Roman Catholic instruction and where the teachers can be fired by the Bishop, an unelected person accountable to no one being a member of an organisation that is seemingly beyond the laws of the Irish state in the cover up of men who rape and abuse children. Seems like a bit of a strange organisation to have as the main educator of children.

Meanwhile the salaries of the teachers, the upkeep of the school building and the school running costs is paid for by the taxpayer. Where does the Church funding come into this?

Then to cap it all the Church can decide to 'force' parents to get their child baptised by putting obstacles in parents choices so that they will not get a place in a school near them if they don't comply with Church orders? And basically most of you go along with this subtle coercion for that very reason.

Then you have the viscious circle of non practising/non believing parents having to go through the charade of Holy Communion and presumable Confirmation.

And a lot of you think this is a reasonable state of affairs, many of you accept it, go along with it and never question it.

In the other thread currently on this subject there is a link to an old thread where Jaybird has to live this reality in Ireland of no choice for her children. A very sad state of affairs indeed.
 
+1 Bronte

"And a lot of you think this is a reasonable state of affairs, many of you accept it, go along with it and never question it"

Every time that someone who is not a practising Catholic or not a believer in the Catholic church baptises their child for the cop out reasons that they don't want to
upset their parents or that it will make it easier to get into a better school, they
are continuing to support a culture in Ireland that there is something wrong with
not being Catholic.

The Catholic Church in Ireland is deeply corrupt and they have a stranglehold on eduction, and we let them and continue to let them.
 
Teatime said:
+1 Bronte & Huskerdu

People need to start having the courage of their convictions.
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Absolutely.

Make no mistake about it, this subtle coercion is exactly what the church desires and will not let go of it easily. Also, the state is no rush to take over the management of the primary schools. What I would like see is one of the political parties pledging to end this arrangement should they form a government after the next election. In fact... I think I'll drop an email to my TD!

edit: done!
 
The Eucharistic Congress in two years time will be a big test test of the relationship between church and state. I have no doubt the state will be heavily involved.
We have the Corpus Christi parade very June here in Cork and the army is heavily involved, providing a guard of honour (with swords drawn) for the bishop while he carries the host.
 
Its a tradition that dates back to the early days of the state when the state and church were almost inseparable.
 
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