Alarms, wireless v wired

I don't see why doing it yourself DIY is legal, but getting an unlicenced company to do is illegal.
 
Ms T said:
The fact that the company is not licensed is already unlawful. Besides, if something wrong happens, the more things will get complicated.
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Er what. You can have an electrical contractor who is self employed, and has his own company but not a PSA & NSAI licensed installer, yet still competent to do electrical work includng alarms.
 
AlbacoreA said:
Er what. You can have an electrical contractor who is self employed, and has his own company but not a PSA & NSAI licensed installer, yet still competent to do electrical work includng alarms.
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If he is not PSA licenced he is breaking the law if he does any work on alarms.
 
colm said:
If he is not PSA licenced he is breaking the law if he does any work on alarms.
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Colm,

Again, where does it mention anything in the Private Security Services Act 2004 about security systems, specifically alarms??
 
I Don't exactly know what argument you are trying to make but I hope this quote from the PSA website clarifys things for you. I have highlighted the relevant bits.

The legislation is very clear in that it covers persons who provide a security service for remuneration. It is an offence under the Act for a security company or a person working in the industry to provide, or present themselves to provide, a security service without a licence, once the 'critical date' for a sector has passsed (the critical date is the date from which licensing becomes mandatory for any given sector(s)). Similarly, it is an offence to employ an unlicensed security operator.

[broken link removed] is the Act if you wish to read it yourself.
 
colm said:
I Don't exactly know what argument you are trying to make but I hope this quote from the PSA website clarifys things for you. I have highlighted the relevant bits.

The legislation is very clear in that it covers persons who provide a security service for remuneration. It is an offence under the Act for a security company or a person working in the industry to provide, or present themselves to provide, a security service without a licence, once the 'critical date' for a sector has passsed (the critical date is the date from which licensing becomes mandatory for any given sector(s)). Similarly, it is an offence to employ an unlicensed security operator.

[broken link removed] is the Act if you wish to read it yourself.
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Colm,

Thanks for clarifying.

As I said above, i'm not trying to catch anyone out. I read through the Act last night and couldn't find anything about house alarms in it or anything about breaking the law by getting someone who doesn't have a license to install one.

I note that it does group under ‘‘security service’’ a ‘‘supplier or installer of security equipment’’, but stops there. I was under the impression the Act was brought about mainly to license bouncers and private detectives etc.

The original question posed by the OP is around wireless alarms and if they are any use.

I find it difficult to understand how someone could be accused of breaking the law by attempting to protect their house with a 'security system', whoever installs it.

I'm also trying to find out what law they are breaking and how this law defines a 'security system'.

For example, i'd regard a simple PIR yard light as an effective enough security system. If an old lady buys one and asks her son to install it, is she breaking the law?

If she then asks him to install a wireless alarm system similar to the one mentioned by the OP, is she also breaking the law? If so, what law? And should she be warned about this before she buys it?

Or is it ok to install any alarm system you like as long as you don't pay anyone to do it?
 
Its a bit like the car industry trying to make it so an independent servicing your car will in validate the warranty, and while thats not true in law, a lot of dealers will tell people it is and will try enforce it.

This seems much the same. I can see the point of creating a selling point of having an alarm meeting a certain standard, vlaidated by independent checks. But making it illegal to do it any other way except DIY yourself seems very strange.
 
I really am failing to see the point you are trying to argue. The law is in place & if you dont have a licence you you are breaking the law if you install or work on an alarm. If you feel some of it is open to interpetation then the courts are the place to test that.
 
Doesn't make sense why DIY is illegal if you pay someone to do it. You should be able to pay someone to install a non compliant alarm system if you want.

I see they've got a conviction aleady.
[broken link removed]
 
AlbacoreA said:
You should be able to pay someone to install a non compliant alarm system if you want.
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Why?? That would kida defeat the purpose.
Why would anyone want a system thats not up to standard.
If I need prescription drugs perhaps I should be allowed to pay someone who is not licenced to practice medicine????
On the same note I can go to the chemist & decide on something my self which does not require a prescription.
Perhaps there should be no licence required for transport? Maybe you should be able to stand at a bus stop & any old sod driving a bus could stop & charge you what he likes.
Maybe there should be no licence for taxi's. You hail a taxi, theres no need for a meter & you just pay what your told when you reach your destination
The list could go on & on. Certin industries need to be licenced & thats all there is to it.
The act is very clear in whats legal & whats not.
We have gone way off topic here from the original posters questions.
I am sorry but I really can not see the point you are trying to argue.
Maybe you feel the act itself is flawed & should be challanged in a court of law. If so perhaps start a thread in the Askabout Law forum
 
Your analogy is not the same at all. Its like someone giving a friend a few quid to cover petrol, to drive them somewhere. But now making that illegal, because they are not a taxi driver. Indeed its probably illegal even if you give them nothing. The only thing thats not illegal is if you drive yourself.

I'm not arguing, I'm discussing it. Its news to me, and I'm sure to the other people reading this thats illegal to pay a qualified electrician, or indeed anyone to install an alarm. You have to go through a licensed installer only. Even if you don't want a certified system. I known many people over the years who've got other people to install alarms for them, usually an electrian. So must be common practise. Even the fact that they oulawed it would suggest its common practise too.

Obviously it makes sense to have a regulated industry especially in the area of sercurity. No one can dispute that. However I have been disstatisfied with the few alarm companies big or small that I've had to deal with, and a system that I can maintain myself and get installed by a preferred electrian to my requirements seemed like a good idea. No idea it was illegal.

Why is legal to some install their own alarm and completely bypass all these standards?
 
Would have to agree with Altor on all of the above.
To say you dont trust something you dont know about makes no sense to me either.
 
tesco UK is doing what appears to be a good deal on a "Yale Ultimate Peace of Mind"
I think I'll take the plunge.
 
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