AIB AIB restoring my tracker - but at 3.67%!

Sarenco

Frequent Poster
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5,499
Further to being offered a tracker rate of 3.67%, please find attached the latest letter from the bank
Hi Balfour

AIB's argument in that letter seems to turn on whether or not a tracker rate was "available" when your fixed rate period expired in 2013.

I would argue that trackers were in fact "available" in 2013 - thousands of AIB borrowers were on trackers at that time - they simply weren't offered to new borrowers or as a roll-off option for fixed rate borrowers. If AIB had meant that trackers had to be generally offered by AIB to new borrowers or as a roll-off rate when your fixed term expired for this option to be applicable, then AIB should have explicitly said so in their contract.

However, even if the word "available" should be read to mean "offered to new borrowers or as a roll-off rate", I think you could argue that by failing to offer a tracker rate as a roll-off option, AIB unilaterally changed an inherent and fundamental feature of the loan product, without your prior agreement.

I would definitely appeal AIB's decision to the FSO, with a copy to the Central Bank.

Hope that helps.
 

bungaro

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150
balfour, i'm going to write to the bank like you did so as i will be following the same route as you. would be amazing if this came through, couldn't come at a better time #justicefortheaib3 :D
 

Sarenco

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5,499
Before you can submit your FSO complaint you need to request the bank to formally indicate this is their "final response".
That's a good point but I think the letter that Balfour posted would suffice for this purpose.
 

notabene

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333
Thanks very much for all your comments

Just one last thing, is there a lot involved in making a case to the FSO
My own experience was pretty long & drawn out but the process has since changed & the bank must go to mediation now so hopefully that will speed things up. The fso is hoping this will lessen the need for adjudication in the future. The important thing is you've got to hold your nerve, which can be difficult at times. I did it myself, but you may want to look at a third party for help depending on how you feel about it.

The bank could also possibly try to say you are out of time and try to date it to 2008, but do not accept this, the breach was in 2013, failing to offer the full conditions of the contract, so you are well in time.

I would get a folder also & put all of your documents in date order, everything you have & make it easy for yourself or anyone else to find the information. Perhaps a timeline of events would be useful also, even for yourself, to keep track of all that has occurred. The better prepared you are, the better chance you have of winning. In my experience, the bank was all over the place with paperwork and could not keep a consistent story together, my having all the paperwork really helped me to put across what actually occurred.

Try to be succinct and to the point when putting across what happened so that it is easy for anyone to understand going through it

Make sure you know what you want to achieve, as this is asked on the fso form(unless it has changed) and if AIB altered the contract and should have offered you the option of a tracker in 2013, as well as wanting a tracker, you need to be compensated for not having been able to avail of that option for the last three years. €500 goodwill payment does not cut it & I'm sure they know that.

Some contracts are ambiguous as to what would happen at the end of a fixed period, but yours is not, it is specific in the options which you should be offered. This I would think would be a condition of the contact (ie a fundamental part) and by not honouring it, they would be in breach of contract.

Is it possible to find out what tracker rates customers would have been on then and specifically look for one of those rates too as I'm sure none of them were 3.67% +ECB

Your letter said at the end that this was their final response (about half way down on 4th page), so you can fill in the form above and get started but perhaps you might try them again with the facts set out plainly to see if they will budge themselves. Particularly, as they did say themselves, last week, 'that they failed to fulfil conditions of contracts'.

If not, get your papers filled with the fso as soon as possible, as the sooner you do it, the sooner it will be sorted, if it were me I wouldn't accept what they're offering.

Your other option is to look at suing AIB for breach of contract, as you are also still within the six year time limits but that would involve a high court case as the money involved would exceed the circuit court limits.
 
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Brendan Burgess

Founder
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It's actually a lot more than this.

I have seen good cause for complaints rejected by the FSO, because people just submitted forms. Whereas cases taken properly with the assistance of someone like Padraic Kissane have a much higher chance of succeeding.

I think that those of you affected by the 3.67% rate should get together, look for some others, and plan a strategy.

This could be a group complaint to the Central Bank. It could be getting legal advice. It could be separate complaints to the FSO.

But don't just fire off a form.

Brendan
 

notabene

Frequent Poster
Messages
333
It's actually a lot more than this.

I have seen good cause for complaints rejected by the FSO, because people just submitted forms. Whereas cases taken properly with the assistance of someone like Padraic Kissane have a much higher chance of succeeding.

I think that those of you affected by the 3.67% rate should get together, look for some others, and plan a strategy.

This could be a group complaint to the Central Bank. It could be getting legal advice. It could be separate complaints to the FSO.

But don't just fire off a form.

Brendan
I agree, I think better chance of Success if you work together and also good to have a little support network amongst yourselves

Absolutely no harm in getting 3rd party, financial advisor or legal advisor or both' advice before proceeding either. A financial advisor should have knowledge on what tracker rates were previously & may have other clients in the same boat.

Forwarding to the Central Bank is also a good idea as AIB are purporting to do what they should have done here, but they are doing it in such a way that the tracker isn't attractive and that is egregious behaviour by them & pretty sharp practice at best, particularly as these were sent out just ahead of their announcement last week.
 
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bungaro

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no worries guys, i will send my letter tomorrow so at least we will be at the same stage once i get my reply from aib. as soon as i hear back from padraic i will message here again
 

Balfour

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149
Hi all

As this thread has now actually hit over 4,800 views, I am just wondering is there any body else out there that is in the same position as Kim, Bungaro and myself, ie not offered a tracker rate at the end of a fixed period, surely there is!
 

zinzan

Registered User
Messages
14
Hi,
We've just received the exact same letter as yourself mentioning tracker at 3.67%.
We originally drew down in 2007 and fixed for 3 years. Checked when we came off fixed initially was tracker available to us, were told no so we fixed for two further periods of three years.
Now get the letter today telling us under the terms of our letter of offer a tracker rate is available to us.
Should a tracker (at the more favourable terms at the time) have been available to us at the time we first fixed?
Is there anything we can/should do to find out?

Thanks.

Z.
 

dazbc14

Registered User
Messages
18
same here - I'm only seeing this thread now. we have had the same challenge to AIB - drew down on fixed, loan offer had those 3 options at the end of fixed, same response from AIB offering tracker at 3.67% which would be a higher rate than current! last correspondence of 3 sent to AIB in May nothing back to date. happy to join in as they say power in numbers!
 

Marie Meehan

Registered User
Messages
18
I'm just after receiving same letter offering us prevailing tracker of 3.67% - completly trown and confused by lettero_O

Rang AIB fir some guidance on it and they said it was a one time only offer and won't be repeated which is making me more confused as to what rate to go on
 

Balfour

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149
Marie, dazbc 14 & zinzan,

Thanks for the comments, yes we seem to be all in the same boat, the Bank is offering a very high rate of 3.67% as a tracker. Along with Kim, Bungaro, that's currently 6 of us in total with the same issue.

The next step, internal appeals process (appeal based on all our cases lodged as one), the FSO, or the High Court.

I will would like to get your view on the above next steps

Regards
 

Marie Meehan

Registered User
Messages
18
I'm completely clueless about all this - just don't want to feel like i'm being ripped off ! i'm more than willing to come together to see if we can get to the bottom of this
 

dazbc14

Registered User
Messages
18
I'd be happy to go to FSO - I have sent 3-4 letters on this complaint to date with no satisfaction. In all correspondence I have advised AIB of my right to bring my case to the FSO if we are unable to reach a fair resolution, which offering a tracker with a rate higher than my current rate doesn't seem to be very fair or in the spirit of wanting to come to a realistic resolution. Also they have noted my right to refer my complaint to the FSO if I am dissatisfied, which, after a year of communication with them, I am.

I'd be interested in hearing Brendan's and others who have gone to FSO previously, opinion's on rolling these 6 into 1 to go to FSO or go separately.
 

notabene

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333
I'd be happy to go to FSO - I have sent 3-4 letters on this complaint to date with no satisfaction. In all correspondence I have advised AIB of my right to bring my case to the FSO if we are unable to reach a fair resolution, which offering a tracker with a rate higher than my current rate doesn't seem to be very fair or in the spirit of wanting to come to a realistic resolution. Also they have noted my right to refer my complaint to the FSO if I am dissatisfied, which, after a year of communication with them, I am.

I'd be interested in hearing Brendan's and others who have gone to FSO previously, opinion's on rolling these 6 into 1 to go to FSO or go separately.

First if you don't mind me saying, I wouldn't let the bank push you into a decision, they've made you wait long enough, you are entitled to time for due consideration.

I have been to the FSO and will be honest in saying it wasn't a great experience - if you look at the thread on Prime Time doing a piece on Ulster Bank Customer that is my full story. I would say though that others have had better experiences and that the process has changed whereby the bank must now go to mediation first which they had been refusing previously. If mediation dies nit work then the fso will adjudicate & if either party are unhappy they can appeal to the high court.

I would say before you decide perhaps consult a solicitor too about breach of contract in your case - it is more expensive and I'm not saying you should go that route first but I was told by a barrister earlier in the year that the courts prefer cases which have initially gone through them rather than the FSO in the first instance. This will also depend on if the case is statute barred at this stage (beyond the six year limit) thought this could be void by the fact that the bank has carried out the review, deemed you entitled to a tracker it not given you the correct rate, therefor a six year period on this decision could be starting but you would need proper legal advice.

I would advise you in either case to put all the information you have into a folder in chronological order - anything you can get your hands on which makes the case easiervtomexplain to anyone who looks at it. Perhaps also write a time line of events - either way it isn't easy to fight the bank and the better prepared you are the easier it is. Try to work together too if possible as it would really help to have a little support network as it really is draining work.
 
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elizabeth456789

Registered User
Messages
6
Hi, I'm in the same boat, I think. We took out our mortgage in 2007 with AIB and were offered fixed or variable. We went with fixed for 2 yrs and have always been on fixed to date for either 2 or 3 yrs.

My current fixed rate expires on the 29th Nov 2016 and we recently received in new fixed and variable rates. Then 2 days ago I received the same letter as you guys offering me the option of a tracker rate at 3.67%. We were never offered a tracker rate in our letter of offer or after every fixed rate expired. I didn't think tracker rates were still around!

When I initially heard about all the tracker rate problems with the banks I thought it didn't apply to me as I wasn't on a tracker rate to begin with. I really don't know anything about mortgages or rates. I would be very grateful if someone on this thread could indicate if I might have cause for concern. Should I have been offered a tracker rate all along?
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
37,853
I would like to see a copy of the letter which AIB sent to borrowers offering them the 3.67% rate.

I have seen their response to complaints on the issue, but I gather that they wrote to some of you out of the blue offering you this rate.

Could you email a copy to brendan at this website or else hide your name and address and attach it to a reply to this thread, or send it to me in a Private Conversation.

Thanks

Brendan
 

dazbc14

Registered User
Messages
18
Hi Brendan

I am one of those that received the 3.67% rate as a response to a complaint I raised which I gather you have seen before... let me know if you need to see anything else.
 

elizabeth456789

Registered User
Messages
6
I would like to see a copy of the letter which AIB sent to borrowers offering them the 3.67% rate.

I have seen their response to complaints on the issue, but I gather that they wrote to some of you out of the blue offering you this rate.

Could you email a copy to brendan at this website or else hide your name and address and attach it to a reply to this thread, or send it to me in a Private Conversation.

Thanks

Brendan
Hi Brendan,
If you haven't already received it then I can email you the letter I received offering 3.7pc tracker. Could you just clarify your email address.
 
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