AIB AIB has accepted the Ombudsman's decision and will be rolling it out to 5,900 impacted customers

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Feel the need to say well done and thank you Brendan for all work done on this.

In alot of the tracker mortgage cases alot of people have gotten life changing amounts of money and adjustments to their mortgages and in most cases totally unaware that there was an issue in the first place. The efforts of a few have benefited thousands again and again.

For those who think that the result is not good enough, they will have extra money in a few months and the opportunity if they wished to take a further case to the ombundsman or courts. I would think those that go down that road will be in the minority again.
 
peemac said:
OK, I've done some basic figures - comes with a health warning, but it is in the ballpark. (I had 95% accuracy on KBC figures :) )

Based on each 100k, taking average 27 years left on a mortgage at July 1st 2010.

Using an average charged rate of 3.5% for the period from July 1st to April 2020

Assuming a rate of 2.95% is charged for the remainder of the loan from April 2020 (this will change, but tracker rates will probably change at similar rates, so comparison should be valid)

The result is that the deal is the equivalent to a tracker rate of about 1.8%. If you had been getting the higher TRS relief, then its about 1.65%.

Average interest refund due on the 12% reduction is close to €4,000 per €100,000

Average reduction in Mortgage payments going forward based on current 2.95% rate is €50/100k/month.


An easy comparison is taking the total paid on a per 100k balance in 2010 @27yrs remaining @ av tracker of 1.9% (remember rates were not always 0%) is 128k

Total paid on 88k balance from 2010 @ 27 year remaining @ average rate of 3.1% for the full 27 years is €130k.

If you can switch to a 2.5% rate and can keep at circa 2.5% for next 17 years (a strong possibility), your total per 100k repayment will be 127k, and a circa 1.65% tracker.

And on top of this, you are free to switch without giving up any of the benefits of this deal



Considering many had given up on this, I think its an exceptional outcome.
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Hi Peemac

Thanks for your calculations.

So if we had to summarise your figures, how does this compare if instead people had tracker reinstated and were given the same compensation package as last time? Broadly the same you feel?

You state "The result is that the deal is the equivalent to a tracker rate of about 1.8%. If you had been getting the higher TRS relief, then its about 1.65%.".
But last time round there was additional compensation and refund of overpayment paid out also right? Or does you calculation factor that in?
 
I am happy with this outcome as to be honest i was dubious about our case to begin with , yes they should have offered a tracker but i do agree that it would have been at a very high rate - i presume thats why the ombudsman is not putting us back on trackers now

It was a breach of contract and a service failure and i am happy with the outcome

Thanks a million Brendan for all your hard work
 
zxcvbnm said:
Hi Peemac

Thanks for your calculations.

So if we had to summarise your figures, how does this compare if instead people had tracker reinstated and were given the same compensation package as last time? Broadly the same you feel?

You state "The result is that the deal is the equivalent to a tracker rate of about 1.8%. If you had been getting the higher TRS relief, then its about 1.65%.".
But last time round there was additional compensation and refund of overpayment paid out also right? Or does you calculation factor that in?
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I didn't take compensation into account. But the calculation comparison did take overpayment into account. But considering that the case was not as cut and dried as the primary tracker cases, I think most people will be very happy with this.

Many won't even realise they are getting this, so they'll be delirious.

It's about 80% in favor of the customer and you have the freedom to switch without loss.
 
Hi all,

I showed this to my friend who has no understanding of Mortgages nor have I.

He asked me why we are assuming that the wording (at the Bank's then prevailing rates appropriate to the Mortgage Loan) refers to point C


3.2 FURTHER FIXED INTEREST RATE OPTIONS/CHOICE

At the end of any fixed interest rate period, the Customer may choose between:
(a) a further fixed interest rate period, or
(b) conversion to a variable interest rate Mortgage Loan, or
(c) conversion to a tracker interest rate Mortgage Loan,
at the Bank's then prevailing rates appropriate to the Mortgage Loan.

Remember...The bank made up the prevailing rate....
 
Hi Tdress

You don't need to understand mortgages for that question.

"at the Bank's then prevailing rates" actually applies to all three categories a) b) & c)

But I don't see the relevance of that?

Brendan
 
coolaboola12 said:
I am happy with this outcome as to be honest i was dubious about our case to begin with , yes they should have offered a tracker but i do agree that it would have been at a very high rate - i presume thats why the ombudsman is not putting us back on trackers now

It was a breach of contract and a service failure and i am happy with the outcome

Thanks a million Brendan for all your hard work
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A great win and a great achievement after a long struggle....I am still convinced the prevailing rate did exist and AIB maintained it publicly by way of their press releases but the ombudsman did not go so far as to say what the prevailing rate was....what he did do was provide a solution that will benefit 6000 families and this was a great result.... thanks again Brendan
 
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I know some people are disappointed that we are not being put on trackers (as am I) but really this is far and above what I thought we would get after the Senior Councils opinion in 2018.

I'm not sure everyone realises what this lump sum off you mortgage will do to the profile of it if you keep your monthly repayments at there existing levels.

For instance if I keep mine the same I will knock close to 4 years off the duration of the mortgage and save €14,500 in interest payments.

This is a good calculator to work out your savings

Overpayment Calculator - Manage My Mortgage - Bank of Ireland

We offer you the flexibility to overpay your mortgage. Use our overpayment calculator to see what savings you could make.
personalbanking.bankofireland.com personalbanking.bankofireland.com
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Megafan

Is that a bad choice of words on your part?

They conceded nothing.

They have been dragged kicking and screaming on this issue for 5 years now. They conceded nothing.

They refused point blank that these customers were even impacted.
They refused to write to them telling them that they were not impacted.
They spoke down to me and Alan when we raised the issue over the last three AGMs.
They made a laughing stock of themselves in front of the Oireachtas Finance Committee defending the indefensible.
The Central Bank forced them to admit them to the Ombudsman and legal process.
The Appeals Panel cut and paste the AIB press release into their rejection of every appeal on the issue.
During the Ombudsman process they refused to mediate for settlement, but would only mediate "for clarification"
They robustly attacked every point made during the exchanges with the Ombudsman.
After the preliminary decision was issued and after they had announced that they were making a provision of €300m, they lodged a 10 page series of legal challenges to that preliminary decision.
They waited 35 days after the final decision was issued before they decided not to appeal to the High Court and concede defeat.

So that is all they conceded - defeat after years of conceding nothing else.

While at the same time claiming "We put the customer at the centre of everything".

Brendan
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Yes Brendan, a long litany of "non-concessions". Indeed, I liken AIB to the Darth Vadar of banking in Ireland. They have been at the centre of every banking scandal going back 35 years to the DIRT episode and each time they carry on as normal. To my mind, their brand value is zero. If they were on fire, I would hand them a can of petrol!

To some extent AIB have a partial victory in that they did not restore the trackers so, the last line of defence now is the CBI and whether they insist on restoration of trackers as part of the redress scheme.
 
Hi. I'm new to this site but have been following the story. I received the 1600 cheque back in March 2018. Thank you Brendan and others for all your hard work on this as it will truly make a difference to our lives. We got our our mortgage in Oct 08. We went variable till 2010 and then went fixed till 2012. I'm just wondering would our redress be from 2010 when we finished the variable or 2012 when we came off fixed? Again I really appreciate everyones efforts on this matter.
Many thanks..
 
Got another BDO your appeal is receiving attention letter this morning, I recognized the envelope so was hopeful it might have some news but was sent last Thursday so nothing new.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
AIB broke their contract with you in 2012, so that is the date.

Brendan
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On that Brendan. Great to see something happening finally, much appreciation to you and the likes of Michael Mc Garth and Pierce Doherty for flying the flag. This contract bit that I have alway felt aggrieved with. In any other commercial contract, both parties agree to a set of terms, and it becomes legally binding on the day of signing. ( not 10 years later where one party decides to pick and choose bits for themselves). Whether AIB like it or not, these contracts stated we should get a tracker at the end of the variable. They have tried pawning us off with the “prevailing rate” card, (and there was none when the fixed ended to measure against). One thing is clear and is on the record. On the day we signed contracts, AIB were signing standard trackers with other people, and we should, in my opinion, be offered whatever rate they are on now, as we signed up on the same day. It’s not about what’s available at the end,its what was agreed on signing. Am I wildly wrong here? Are banking contracts different somehow?
 
AIBTracker6000 said:
On that Brendan. Great to see something happening finally, much appreciation to you and the likes of Michael Mc Garth and Pierce Doherty for flying the flag. This contract bit that I have alway felt aggrieved with. In any other commercial contract, both parties agree to a set of terms, and it becomes legally binding on the day of signing. ( not 10 years later where one party decides to pick and choose bits for themselves). Whether AIB like it or not, these contracts stated we should get a tracker at the end of the variable. They have tried pawning us off with the “prevailing rate” card, (and there was none when the fixed ended to measure against). One thing is clear and is on the record. On the day we signed contracts, AIB were signing standard trackers with other people, and we should, in my opinion, be offered whatever rate they are on now, as we signed up on the same day. It’s not about what’s available at the end,its what was agreed on signing. Am I wildly wrong here? Are banking contracts different somehow?
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I don't know how they could be.

For AIB customers, the remedy surely is refunding the money, compensation and offering the tracker.

I suspect that perhaps the finding not to recommend that the tracker be offered may be a way of buying off an appeal or a further fight by AIB.

As far as I'm concerned, I would be happy to recieve the refund plus interest and the option to pursue the tracker separate and distinct.

The novel issue for me is that
A) I had to move as a result of the mortgage payments. Whether I can prove that and whether I would be entitled to further compensation as a result is another thing.
B) I'm no longer with AIB. I'm locked into a fixed for 2 years with Ulster Bank. How will that work if I am to be offered a tracker? Will they pay the penalty to release me from the fixed? Will the option be there in 2 years to take the tracker?
 
Can I ask if you had interest only over different stages of your duration, will this effect your payment from AIB? I came off a fixed mortgage in 2009, and I think I had interest only in 2011
Murf08 said:
Hi. I'm new to this site but have been following the story. I received the 1600 cheque back in March 2018. Thank you Brendan and others for all your hard work on this as it will truly make a difference to our lives. We got our our mortgage in Oct 08. We went variable till 2010 and then went fixed till 2012. I'm just wondering would our redress be from 2010 when we finished the variable or 2012 when we came off fixed? Again I really appreciate everyones efforts on this matter.
Many thanks..
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but if he wasn't offered the tracker in 2010 should this not be applied to this date? I had a year of interest only during my duration and I wondering will this effect my pay out too?
 
BradyJ2018 said:
Can I ask if you had interest only over different stages of your duration, will this effect your payment from AIB? I came off a fixed mortgage in 2009, and I think I had interest only in 2011
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Not sure as the nature of the redress is different from the Central Bank scheme.

I think that the amounts will be the same.

But AIB might take the view that you are in arrears, and so apply the cash to reduce the mortgage balance. But I doubt it.

Brendan
 
The Central Bank had a redress scheme which involved giving people trackers from the date they should have got them, calculating the difference in interest charged, and paying 15% compensation for distress.

The Ombudsman did not use that approach and awarded Karen 12% of the mortgage balance on the day she should have been offered a tracker rate and the interest on that.

So they are very different indeed.

Brendan
 
Hi All, we received the cheque of €1,615 and are happy with the ombudsman decision. We drew down our mortgage is 2008 and fixed for 3 years. In 2009 we paid to come off the fixed rate to variable. I am just wondering will the 12% calculation be calculated from 2009 or 2011 when it was supposed to finish if we hadn’t broke out. Also do you think we might get the breakage cost refunded? Thanks
 
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