AIB AIB Data Protection request - omitted key information

Redman

Registered User
Hi everyone,first time poster,Anybody that can advise me would be appreciated,we went to aib to change our mortgage provider in 2008,after a few visits to the bank they sent us a document outlining the interest rate options for us to mull over before we drew down,on that document there were a selection of rates including variable,a couple of fixed options and a tracker home,the two year fixed option was our best option at the time,at the end of our fixed term we received our interest rate options going forward and no tracker option just a few LTV variable and a few fixed option,when they we're selling us their product it had the tracker option but it was too high for us 5.75%,so we fixed for some security with the intentions of seeing how it pans out over our fixed term,now despite us having clause 3.2 "at the end of any fixed term we would have the option to convert to a tracker which matches up perfectly with the options they sent us at the start,during our fixed term they withdrew trackers for new mortgage applicants as in the press statement in 2010,they altered the terms and conditions of a binding contract which we all know is illegal and that decision sent us into all sorts of trouble which is another story,have heard nada from the bank,data request sent about three weeks ago,I have my documents to hand here just want to see if they omit any documents they think we might not have,gonna fight this tooth and nail with the rest of ya,you cannot alter a legal document,by the way I have a pile of letters from aib we were getting bi-weekly because we missed two payments on a car loan to put to the mortgage about how we broke the terms and conditions and goods would be sized blah blah blah,any help please
 

Redman

Registered User
Hi all
Got our data request the other day and all mention of a tracker rate has been left out,we fixed for 2 years 2008,they also left out the document with the interest rate options when they were selling us a mortgage which reflects the options in clause 3.2
Emailed them to ask why important parts of our contract were missing and they sent a different set of terms and conditions altogether,Unknown to them I have my original documentation from 2008 and something is going on here,can anyone advise on what next step,I just hope the central bank is not doing their reviews based on the information the bank provided us with
 

Rangemaster

Registered User
Hi redman. We're due our documentation shortly under the FOI. But we do have most of the important documents. I'll be interested to see if they do correspond.
 

Skippy1

Frequent Poster
@Redman same happened us. Requested copy of letter of offer and was missing sections with Clause 3.2. Subsequently found copy in attic, got back onto AIB and mentioned and they sent full copy out after that.

PM me if you haven't formally complained yet and will share issues I found on review. Would recommend basing complaint on Central Bank Framework and Consumer Protection Codes.

@tommygirl Thanks for that. Under Consumer Protection Code 2006 I believe we should have been notified at least 30 days in advance in relation to new charges.

I'm still convinced missing one letter: a reminder of options in advance of roll off rates letter, which I saw after roll off and tore up in frustration once received - or else I'm going slightly mad...I vividly recall ringing bank at time to complain and they said was my fault re. address.

I missed the roll off rates letter sent 2 weeks in advance and defaulted to SVR.

Requested info via SAR and received. Had most letters already. SAR request was missing some correspondence (including this illusive letter....).
 
I have moved these posts from a general thread which was going off in all directions.

Got our data request the other day and all mention of a tracker rate has been left out
Guys, can we clarify exactly what happened here?

Redman
1) What was the actual document - was it a mortgage offer?
2) Did they send you a copy of the actual document with your name and address and account details on it or just a generic document?
3) Did they doctor your actual document to delete an important clause?
4) What was that specific clause?
5) Or did they just not send you a copy of a document which they should have sent you?

Brendan
 
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Redman

Registered User
Hi Brendan,will try answer in sequence.
1.the document has both our name,reference number,draw down date term of loan,first payment date,last payment date and the interest rate options we had to choose from for drawdown of our mortgage,clearly not generic
We requested our data and what we received was multiple copies of the same documents,documents of our phone conversations with large parts completely blacked out,and bits of our contract leaving out parts 3,4and 5,Clause 3.2says “At the end of any fixed term we would have the option to convert to a further fixed term,a variable or a tracker.
It’s not a case of they didn’t just not send a document.Its a case of them not sending multiple documents all of which contain the information of our tracker option
 

Redman

Registered User
Data collected from the bank,was in a grey plastic wrapping.
Emailed them to ask why parts were left out and got a reply that at the time of print the parts i queried about being missing ie.parts 3,4,5 were not scanned over to them but parts 6,7 and a small bit of part 2,
Got another email with our terms and coditions attached and it’s not our terms and conditions,it’s different,completly different clause 3.2
 
Redman

I am not interested in all the other stuff they sent you.

Did they send you a copy of your actual mortgage offer , but doctored to remove a clause?

In what way was it doctored?
Did they use cut and paste to remove the good clause and put in a fake clause?
Did they just black out the favourable clause.



Brendan
 
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Redman

Registered User
Hi idesofmarch,I will tell you what’s going on and see what you think.
We requested our data from the bank relating to our mortgage.we received this last week,when we went through it comparing it to the original documentation we kept Fromm 2008,parts 3,4 and five were not there specifically clause 3.2 outlining our right to choose the option of a tracker,when I highlighted this with the bank the sent me an email with our terms and conditions,upon reading this email I knew straight away these were not the terms and conditions we have,i again emailed to tell them this is not our terms and conditions
 

Skippy1

Frequent Poster
@Brendan Burgess phoned and requested letter of offer in Oct 2017 from AIB mortgages. I had seen many posts re. 3.2c clause on AAM and wanted to double check. Did not say wanted to review in light of tracker review but did request full copy.

It was missing about half of sections, including sections/pages relating to tracker. Was not doctored/blacked out.

Later found full copy in attic and got back onto AIB. They then sent full copy of letter of offer.
 

TrackerThieves

Frequent Poster
Hi all
Got our data request the other day and all mention of a tracker rate has been left out,we fixed for 2 years 2008,they also left out the document with the interest rate options when they were selling us a mortgage which reflects the options in clause 3.2
Emailed them to ask why important parts of our contract were missing and they sent a different set of terms and conditions altogether,Unknown to them I have my original documentation from 2008 and something is going on here,can anyone advise on what next step,I just hope the central bank is not doing their reviews based on the information the bank provided us with
I have a complicated case ongoing with EBS/AIB, I have requested a number of recorded calls with arrears support unit i believe have important information with exact times and dates. Suprise suprise i only recieved 1/3 of these calls requested and after i initially inquired i was told there is an issue with the device that copies the calls, then get my recordings in the post with only 5 of 14 requested phonecalls, maybe its a genuine mistake but as i was expecting this i won't hold my breath and await their response
 
It was missing about half of sections, including sections/pages relating to tracker. Was not doctored/blacked out.

Later found full copy in attic and got back onto AIB. They then sent full copy of letter of offer.
Thanks Skippy

I have not been able to get a clear answer from Redman and this is very important.

I have a mortgage offer with my name and address on it.

If I ask the bank for a copy, I presume that they will send me that.

We have established that AIB did not doctor the letter.

So how were the sections removed?

Is it that they have no hard copy of the offer? When Skippy asks for a copy of their offer, do they then ask the computer to print out standard terms and conditions no 15 for Mr Skippy?

So it's not that they doctored your letter, they just sent you the wrong one?

Doctoring a letter would be a criminal offence.
Mistakenly sending out the wrong letter would not be.

Is there any chance you could email me copies of the two letters so that I can see for myself? Brendan at this website.

Brendan
 

IdesofMarch

Frequent Poster
Brendan,

Redman requested a DAR from AIB.

When Redman received his DAR and examined the loan offer and associated t&c provided, with the original t&c they did not match. (first issue)

When further examined by Redman, clause 3 of the loan offer was missing the specific part that referred to being able to return to a tracker rate. (Second issue)

You are being too kind to AIB, but hopefully Redman will post the two documents when he finishes work.

A data access request to a bank is particular to the applicants account number and personal details, banks are not in the habit of sending out the correct loan offer but the wrong terms and conditions associated with the loan offer, because both the loan offer and it's associated terms and conditions are put on a data spool at time of contracting (see EC (distant marketing of consumer financial services) Regulations 2004, in particular section 6(5), section 9(3) and 9(5) respectively.


I believe Redman will PM them to you tonight or tomorrow.
 
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TrackerThieves

Frequent Poster
I have a complicated case ongoing with EBS/AIB, I have requested a number of recorded calls with arrears support unit i believe have important information with exact times and dates. Suprise suprise i only recieved 1/3 of these calls requested and after i initially inquired i was told there is an issue with the device that copies the calls, then get my recordings in the post with only 5 of 14 requested phonecalls, maybe its a genuine mistake but as i was expecting this i won't hold my breath and await their response
Was back on to them this morning, said there is a letter in the post but basically says there is no record of 9 of the 14 requested. I think i remember Thomas Ryan mentioning something about calls before a certain date were not available any more but assume that was with his particular bank only. these calls are from 2015+2016 with EBS, surely it impossible to believe so many calls are missing
 
I missed the roll off rates letter sent 2 weeks in advance and defaulted to SVR.
Hi Skippy

Do I understand this correctly?

You had a contract which said you were entitled to a choice of a tracker on completion of your fixed rate period?

They sent you that letter?

But you did not respond to it, so you defaulted to the SVR?

If that is not correct, could you spell out in separate lines in chronological order what did happen.

Thanks
 

Skippy1

Frequent Poster
Yes have enduring tracker option - 3.2 c.

They sent us letter around 2 weeks in advance of roll off. On holidays for bit and limited time to take in. We were discussing options with AIB before receiving letter over phone. In discussions did not pick up that only time could choose variable tracker was leading up to fixed term roll off....Doh

Letter could have been a little clearer also.

Fixed rates higher at time and SVR and tracker the same (for 1.1% margin) so said we'd wait until after next fixed term. Did not fix again until after trackers "discontinued".
IMG_2848.PNG


I recall (but doubting myself now) receiving another letter before the above, dated couple weeks in advance (but sent to my old address), which was a reminder letter and clearer on options. Am hoping someone could advise if received something similar leading up to first fixed term.
 
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Skippy

That is very helpful. Thank you very much.

So Skippy was offered the option he was entitled to on expiry of his fixed rate. He didn't avail of it.

Whether AIB sent him the right contract or not during the Data Protection request, it simply not relevant. It's unlikely that they committed a criminal action to do something which is not relevant.

Redman has sent me his terms and conditions. He is one of the 4,000 people deemed "not impacted" by AIB because he would have been put on the prevailing rate of 3.67%.

If AIB does not identify Redman in their review, then he will be out by €1,600 and the right to challenge the 3.67% rate, which he should do. But let's wait to see if he gets this money.

I have seen no evidence of criminal intent in any of the banks. I am not ruling it out. I certainly doubt if there would be a criminal conspiracy risking jail to defraud someone of €1,600.

Brendan
 
Fixed rates higher at time and SVR and tracker the same (for 1.1% margin) so said we'd wait until after next fixed term. Did not fix again until after trackers "discontinued".
This is very honest and is the decision most people made. They were worried about rates rising and chose to fix. They did not appreciate the value of trackers.

Brendan
 
Folks

Keep this thread on a very specific track. Did AIB deliberately send the wrong Ts and Cs to Redman and Skippy. Feel free to discuss other issues in other threads.

Brendan
 
I checked with AIB.

They made the decision to pay the €1,600 to the "prevailing rate" customers before Christmas. They are now identifying them and will write to those affected over the coming months.

Redman, I suggest you do nothing further for the moment.

If AIB writes to you telling you that you are affected, then that shows that their redress system is working, whatever about their Data Protection department.

If AIB doesn't write to you, it will highlight an error in their redress system in that it is not properly identifying all those affected.

Brendan
 
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