Affordable Housing. Do I have any case against council?

H

Hanlonodavid

Registered User
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Bought my house for €169,000 in 2007. Pumped €40,000 into it. Market value now €92,000. €130,000 left on mortgage.

I have heard statements where people who bought affordable houses have some protection from negative equity. This makes me laugh as you can see it is far from the case.

The council will not let me rent. Because of the neighbours they put either side of my terraced house I have no hope of being able to sell it. They offered up the vacant houses for social housing or the treshold scheme. I have no problem with this if it was not for the fact that these people do not care for their houses and their houses look awful. I would not buy here if I was anyone else. If I was informed of the possibility that these houses were to be used for social housing I would have not bought the house.

The council do not care it seems so Im thinking of taking legal advice. My solution to council is to buy the house off me so I can move on, a house swap maybe, allow me to rent (I need permission to get a new mortgage) at the very least paint the houses so they look respectable.

It is soul destroying. The house is too small for my growing family, we have a modest income but are good savers. Im at my wits end. Any ideas or solutions?

So Im dealing with both negative equity and neighbours who will not look after their houses.

The fact I can't rent and cannot sell because of council drives me insane.
 
What would the council actually do if you rented?

Who is your mortgage with?
If I was informed of the possibility that these houses were to be used for social housing I would have not bought the house.
Click to expand...

Surely the affordable housing scheme is a form of social housing? You got a house for a big discount on its real value because of your low income.

Brendan
 
I agree I got house at a discount at the time, there is no way at the time I could of afforded the astronomical prices for houses at that time. I still had to pay deposit of €17,000 and a montly mortgage payment after that. I had to meet certain criteria i.e. salary range etc. If I managed to sell house at market value now (€92 000 euro) Ill have lost €120,000 between negative equity and what I invested in house. Point being I think my situation is far from your typical social housing where they are given the houses practically for free.

So I do not see it at all as social housing and its the first time I have ever heard of it refered as so. It is a scheme that has now been disbanded.

My mortgage is with Cork City Council. I was approved for a mortgage with a new bank but the bank will not allow it unless I get permission from Cork City Council to rent out the house. And of course being the backward self serving bunch they are the answer is always 'No'.

The market value when I got house was €305,000 for a 2 bed mid terraced house.

Define 'low wages' to me. The reason they came up with the affordable housing scheme was because even people on a decent wage were being priced out of it. I myself was single at time and felt it my only chance to get on the property ladder. I mean just think about 305,000 for a 2 bed terraced house. It shows how crazy things got and I wish I had more hindsight at the time.
 
Hanlonodavid said:
. And of course being the backward self serving bunch they are the answer is always 'No'.
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Maybe they cannot say yes, there is probably legislation preventing them from doing so. And there must be a reason for this rule.

It's not clear to me about your neighbours, is is a private landlord that owns the properties?
 
I know that but in Fingal they are allowing people to rent out so it seems one rule for some and another rule for others. As for the neighbours they used the empty stock of houses for social housing, either side of me they put familys who know each other.
 
Hanlonodavid said:
. As for the neighbours they used the empty stock of houses for social housing,
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Who is 'they' ? Who owns the 2 houses exactly? Other than the houses needing to be painted what else is wrong? What about the other houses in the estate? Is their a local committee?
 
Apologies I can see where what I said might of been confusing there. 'They' are Cork City Council because it is they who allocated the houses to social housing. All the houses originaly in the estate where affordable housing and I had great neighbours that had to move out due to a whole other issue years back. We have had to deal with barking dogs, rubbish on the estate, anti social behaviour etc. We want out and I know many people are in the same situation and even worse but the fact that there is no movement on anything with the council, it's a shrug their shoulders we can't do anything about anything type of stance they are taking.
 
How come there were vacant houses in the estate,did the original owners walk away from their mortgages?
The council might not give you permission to rent the house but you can do it,so long as your mortgage is being paid every month they won't ask any questions.
 
Hanlonodavid said:
. 'They' are Cork City Council because it is they who allocated the houses to social housing. All the houses originaly in the estate where affordable housing and I had great neighbours that had to move out due to a whole other issue years back.
Click to expand...

I'm still a bit lost on this, you bought a house under the affordable housing scheme in an estate, when you bought in 2007 all the houses were purchased this way. Then somehow, these houses became social housing.

How many houses in the estate.

Does affordable housing mean private owners, but they get help on the mortgage from the council.

What do you mean by social housing exactly?
 
No bank will give me a mortgage unless I get permission from Cork City Council to rent out the property which they will not give. Thats my problem with that one.

When we moved into our houses in 2007 there was a short term rental agreement before we began to pay our mortgages (our deposits already paid) 4 to 8 weeks was the usual amount time. Due to some land and/or legal dispute we ended up paying rent for a year.

I could not be bothered going into it but a lot of the neighbours left out of frustration as they were still renting. For years these houses remained empty until they decided to use the empty units for social housing. What I mean by social housing is the people given the houses for free or they pay a miniscule anount of rent at most and they have all their utilitys supplied and fitted ( seen that with my own eyes either side of me). You really dont know what social housing is.
 
You can't get another mortgage fair enough but if you really want out of your current home you could rent it out and then rent somewhere else yourself?
 
I did that for a year but truth is I want to live in a house where I can change, extend etc. I could not even hang a photo on the wall in the rented property. It looks like save as much as possible and keep trying to sell. Its just such a massive loss of money but Im not alone on that one. Ah well what can you do, there are many in worse situations.
 
Hanlonodavid said:
So Im dealing with both negative equity and neighbours who will not look after their houses. The fact I can't rent and cannot sell because of council drives me insane.
Click to expand...

David you and thousands are in the same predicament. In fact I'm in a worse predicament, similar scenario.

2 adults and 3 kids in a one bedroom apartment bought for 175k currently paid 80k+ which ironically is the current market value. I cant keep a straight face saying this, and yet another 140k to pay. Its a prison.

You would have to be uterly insane to continue entertaining this debenture. They get your money, house any savings then blacklist you. There is not a word in the dictionary that describes what is going on here.

ADDED to this, I'm 100% full annity, NOT shared ownership but both are part of the same scheme that is "Affordable Housing"

  1. Its private housing so they wont transfer you to a house as in social housing if your needs have changed.
  2. Its not private enough to lease out, so you must stay.
  3. They wont allow voluntary surrender
  4. They wont accept any offer on the current market value
  5. You must also pay the property tax
  6. If you are shared ownership you pay all management fees
  7. You must also pay the water charges on something that you supposedly "own".....
I have come to the realisation that there is an alternative meaning to the word ownership here.



Here's something that most dont know, EVEN if you redeme the loan the clawback follows you for 25 years



Youre only option is to service the loan like there is no negative equity or recession. Its BAU (Business As Usual)



They DID take positive equity into account when drafting the legislation with the clawback clause that may NEVER come off the deeds unless the unit is SOLD.....This is the only time the clawback clause comes off. Try deal with a bank with this 3rd entity on the title deeds, they'll not entertain this, I've tried. So if you made any profit on the sale they took a chunk of it. (I can understand this tbh)



However, they DID NOT take negative equity into a/c which is the root of all this. But they dont care.



Under normal behaviour in any economy the relationship between a Creditor and Debtor exists a term called "Co-Responsibility".


*****THERE IS COMPLETE DENIAL OF RISK FROM THE CREDITORS TO THE DEBTORS ALL OVER IRELAND*****


They (Government/council) took a risk lending you money just like the bondholders and want to be paid back in full, just like the bondholers.



Also dont bother with the Councils, they have no power aparently, this is a government legislative scheme and changes to it means changes to legislation in parliment.



No TD is representing Affordable Housing Clients in parliment, no one is taking it serious.



I have written to both ministers for housing, many solicitors and more. In contact with IMOH and NewBeginnings at the mo.



The council will only say they are "agents" to the state and have no arbitrary authority, its still business as usual to them, they dont see the recession or the ramifications of this scheme to ordinary decent people who wanted a HOME, not a flippen INVESTMENT.


I have recorded 2 agents from DCC telling to lease my home out but they cant give it to me in writing.... They know something is wrong AND that lots of people are doing it.
 
zen said:
Also dont bother with the Councils, they have no power aparently, this is a government legislative scheme and changes to it means changes to legislation in parliment.
Click to expand...
If that's true (and I've no reason to doubt you) how come fingal co co were able to change their policy in relation to renting out affordable homes?
 
Zen, your situation is worse and you have my sympathy, 5 of you in a one bed apartment is tough. It beggers belief that they just keep on ignoring this problem. As Superfan stated they allowed it in Fingal so I dont accept the line of them waiting from instructions from above.
I was listening to the radio recently and they were discussing how some people in social housing pick and chose their homes and how they can be upgraded to bigger homes when their stuation changes. Its unbelievable. If they allowed us to rent what would change for them. The mortgage would be paid still, extra tax on the rental income for them and free up people to buy houses.
I am discussing it with my solicitor as I need legal advice. There is nothing I can do about the negative equity I accept but the state of estate and the neighbours. Im hoping for some way out
 
zen said:
David you and thousands are in the same predicament. In fact I'm in a worse predicament, similar scenario.

2 adults and 3 kids in a one bedroom apartment bought for 175k currently paid 80k+ which ironically is the current market value. I cant keep a straight face saying this, and yet another 140k to pay. Its a prison.

You would have to be uterly insane to continue entertaining this debenture. They get your money, house any savings then blacklist you. There is not a word in the dictionary that describes what is going on here.

ADDED to this, I'm 100% full annity, NOT shared ownership but both are part of the same scheme that is "Affordable Housing"

  1. Its private housing so they wont transfer you to a house as in social housing if your needs have changed.
  2. Its not private enough to lease out, so you must stay.
  3. They wont allow voluntary surrender
  4. They wont accept any offer on the current market value
  5. You must also pay the property tax
  6. If you are shared ownership you pay all management fees
  7. You must also pay the water charges on something that you supposedly "own".....
I have come to the realisation that there is an alternative meaning to the word ownership here.



Here's something that most dont know, EVEN if you redeme the loan the clawback follows you for 25 years



Youre only option is to service the loan like there is no negative equity or recession. Its BAU (Business As Usual)



They DID take positive equity into account when drafting the legislation with the clawback clause that may NEVER come off the deeds unless the unit is SOLD.....This is the only time the clawback clause comes off. Try deal with a bank with this 3rd entity on the title deeds, they'll not entertain this, I've tried. So if you made any profit on the sale they took a chunk of it. (I can understand this tbh)



However, they DID NOT take negative equity into a/c which is the root of all this. But they dont care.



Under normal behaviour in any economy the relationship between a Creditor and Debtor exists a term called "Co-Responsibility".


*****THERE IS COMPLETE DENIAL OF RISK FROM THE CREDITORS TO THE DEBTORS ALL OVER IRELAND*****


They (Government/council) took a risk lending you money just like the bondholders and want to be paid back in full, just like the bondholers.



Also dont bother with the Councils, they have no power aparently, this is a government legislative scheme and changes to it means changes to legislation in parliment.



No TD is representing Affordable Housing Clients in parliment, no one is taking it serious.



I have written to both ministers for housing, many solicitors and more. In contact with IMOH and NewBeginnings at the mo.



The council will only say they are "agents" to the state and have no arbitrary authority, its still business as usual to them, they dont see the recession or the ramifications of this scheme to ordinary decent people who wanted a HOME, not a flippen INVESTMENT.


I have recorded 2 agents from DCC telling to lease my home out but they cant give it to me in writing.... They know something is wrong AND that lots of people are doing it.
Click to expand...

Have you considered appealing your case to the Ombudsman?
 
superfan said:
If that's true (and I've no reason to doubt you) how come fingal co co were able to change their policy in relation to renting out affordable homes?
Click to expand...

Fingal have made a policy decision, in relation to at least some existing AH owners, not to enforce the part of their contract that requires them to make the AH their principal residence. Fingal can't change the fact that that's still technically a contractual requirement, though, and any council that doesn't want to adopt the same policy decision is entitled to fall back on that requirement in refusing AH owners permission to rent.

I presume the Department of the Environment is allowing councils to make this call themselves.
 
Well why can't Cork City Council make the same call but no that would be thinking outside the box. On making a complaint to the ombudsman I did that and got a reply. I was supposed to follow it up but never did. Moved out to live with mother in law and rented house out, that didn't work out (Long story) .Moved back in and will be following back up on it. There has got to be some moral ground here, they seem happy to just ignore tne problems people face.
 
sorry for late reply, been away.

@ superfan
These are civil servants who like nothing better than to pass the parcel. Its more work to avoid work than to simply just do the flippen work!, not sure if they realise this which is why I have no sympathy for them when they get the axe and privatised. I'm baffelled as to the level of conflicting information I have been told over an 8 year period. Organised chaos.


@Rainyday
I threw my pants at this and can do little more except wait for them to reposess it. If the regulator done his job we wouldn't be in this state. If the flippen government finance minister says he is POWERLESS to do anything about the bankers bonuses and pay what hope has the ombudsman. Finance minister is in my opinion the most powerful minister next to the prime minister, to say your powerless against bankers is the nail in the coffin for democracy.

@hanlonodavid
yep, it sickens me to the bone that social tennents get looked after, in my case a single mother got a social 2 bedroom penthouse right above me that spanned my 1 bed AND my neighbour's 2 bedroom... (also AH).

I understand the entire system now, I was stuck in a rut, just like you, I was trying to understand it from MY perspective, big mistake. You need perspective. From the councils point of view, its business, why should they care? We live in an era of privatisation, we were on the loosing side not because we are dumb but because we were deliberately NOT PROPERLY INFORMED. You need to adjust and adapt to the changing situation and come to the realisation that is it is your choice.

Accept the situation,
Change the situation or
Remove yourself from the situation.

These are your only options.

I couldnt accept it. Tried for 8 years to change it dealing with total and utter BS
So, I removed myself. I have been on mortgage strike for 1 1/2 years now and now live in Brazil and challenging from here belive it or not.

Think about it, the finacial system is broke, end of. How on earth can something loose 70% of its value and yet your still told to honour agreement while at the same time they dictate how you live? As I said, there is no co-responsiblity.

Its either
horrendous management
Just BAU
Gross negligence

or if your on the receiving end it would appear to be gangster mafia carry on. I want to belive its is just horrendous managment.

According to my debenture I have to ASK my creditor to go on holiday. NO JOKE!!! This is on the copy of the deeds "Not allowed to abandon unit for long period".

My best wishes for you and your famil but do not look to the council for help, go to New Beginnings and/or IMHO. Get independent legal advice. Get representation.

I'm heading back to ireland soon to consult with New Beginings. I'll post my findings.

If I can be of any help to anyone on AH please PM me and I'll do what I can.
 
I am indeed getting legal advice this. Im done writing letters myself. I'm not living in this house for the rest of my life.
 
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