Affordable housing - Clawback

spurrospurro

New Member
Messages
6
Why mind blown? Legislation always trumps contracts.
Hello tks Leo, I didn't actually know that but that wasn't the point I was making. We should have been furnished with it since it (appears) to contain the real terms and conditions, no?

Just on a side note without going off point too much, having said that "legislation trumps contracts", actually makes sense because our contract said we couldn't lease out our home (change in circumstances) unless we got consent from the council to do so, the council sited legislation forbade them from granting any such permission. This means they wrote the loan with that condition, knowingly, that they couldn't grant consent, Does that not make the contract a conflict of terms? I'm not an expert in these areas!
 

Leo

Moderator
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13,221
We should have been furnished with it since it (appears) to contain the real terms and conditions, no?
As in much of the legalities of house purchases, it is assumed that people understand the implications or take advice. As far as I know all mortgage contracts include a clause where you acknowledge you have taken appropriate advice, but many people are understandably more caught up with everything else that is going on.

Does that not make the contract a conflict of terms? I'm not an expert in these areas!
The contract requirement there could only take effect then if the legislation was changed.
 

spurrospurro

New Member
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6
Tks for the reply Leo.

I'm not deviating from the OP, the clawback is one of many terms not in the actual loan. We couldn't remortgage due to this to get away from the council and their unique ways.

Regarding your points
In order to understand the implications of the terms, you first need the actual terms, this is my point. And since the guts of the T&C's were in the housing act, should we have been furnished with same? How can one understand something one does not have.

Your second point regards to taking advice....100% agree here, why would anyone sign a mortgage without taking legal advice, however,....

In our case, and 25 other people in our estate, we had to pay the legal fees of 2,500eur to the council for the solicitor to represent us. I thought this strange but we were told the legal fees for the solicitor had to be paid via the council becuase it was "a government scheme". (this would be added to life of the mortgage aswell so it's 2,5k over 25 years at a variable rate)

It took us 8 years afterwords to discover that it was'nt, it was for the council's representation despite having it in writing that the solcitor was instructed to exectue the mortgage in favour of the lender (us). So words on paper dont even make sense. When we confronted the solicitor why all the aforementioned conditions were never made know to us, to our horror she revealed she was representing the council not us! I nearly died on my feet, seriosly, I almost had a heart attack, the pain radiated from my jaw and arms. It turned out we had paid for the solicitor to represent the council, so we had no legal representation when signing our mortgage. At no point did the solicitor say "where is your solicitor", when we turned up to sign! Nor were the contracts "issued" to us prior.

We have a case with Legal Aid at the moment, the junior barrister appointed to us is reviewing our case. I cannot believe we got hoodwinked into paying the councils legal fees. The barrister says the loan is still performing so it still may be possible to contest the execution of the contract despite being statue barred. He also said that it was possible back in 2005 for a solicitor to represent both parties to execute a mortgage which I find incomprehensible as that's a direct conflict of interest.

P.S. we never got a copy of our Mortgage Protection Policy neither and any attempt to get a full print out from DCC of our mortgage is met with total resistance which the ombudsman, FOI requests and solicitors letters dont seem to deter them in the slightest, they are unaccountalbe. We have been demanding full transparency to our mortgage account and it's calcluations now 5 years! Why can I have full transparency to my AIB, Gas, Electricity, Phone, Internet a/c but not my mortgage. The staff in DCC are remarkably rude and dysfunctional. The solicitor that orchustrated the mortgage is no longer in business neither.
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
13,221
In order to understand the implications of the terms, you first need the actual terms, this is my point. And since the guts of the T&C's were in the housing act, should we have been furnished with same? How can one understand something one does not have.
The acts are published for all to see. It is your responsibility to educate yourself prior to making such a significant investment.

I thought this strange but we were told the legal fees for the solicitor had to be paid via the council becuase it was "a government scheme". (this would be added to life of the mortgage aswell so it's 2,5k over 25 years at a variable rate)
Did you seek independent legal advice on this at the time?
 

spurrospurro

New Member
Messages
6
The acts are published for all to see. It is your responsibility to educate yourself prior to making such a significant investment.


Did you seek independent legal advice on this at the time?

Hello. We didn't know that the affordable housing terms were in the act because the solicitor we paid for didn't tell us because she wasn't representing us. Thats what happened to us which is the easiest way in can put it.

I appreciate your feedback

P.S we we're actually instructed to get a separate solicitor only for the family home declaration which we did do and were told our legal fees were for our solicitor which was part of the scheme. Its abundantly clear this was not the case.
 

Madge78.

Registered User
Messages
10
Hello there I'm wondering can anyone help I've googled and googled but just hitting brick walls...I'm in the process of selling my Affordable Home after 14 years I know how the calculation works...I'm selling after nearly 2 years of intimidation and harassment from the house attached I never wanted to sell but am left with no choice...I've invested alot of money in to my home and had a valuation of works done to try and hold on to some of the claw back...I'll not b making any profit but just need enough to buy something else I will still need to top up my mortgage with current house prices....I have discovered the house attached to me is also affordable although the Council told me it isn't...my question is do I have a case to fight my money invested against the claw back because of my situation and the fact if this family weren't beside me causing me to be in a living hell I wouldn't have to move my life....I've invested because this was my home but it's not any more feel like I'm living in a prison....any advice would be welcomed .
Thanku
 

Madge78.

Registered User
Messages
10
Im back again with figures...sale price 191000 32k of improvement works in the house 14 years can someone please advise me of what I will be left with...bought the house for 125k at the time was valued at 225k
 

WillIBeRich?

Registered User
Messages
34
Im back again with figures...sale price 191000 32k of improvement works in the house 14 years can someone please advise me of what I will be left with...bought the house for 125k at the time was valued at 225k
Hi Madge, my thinking would be that unless your property sells for over the original value price of 225K only then will you receive a return of money. if you sell for 225 or under all that money will go to the council. that's the way the clawback works in my contract with dlrcoco. now each council could have different clawback rules. I recommend you get an independent solicitor to look into your clawback & council contract. correct me if I'm wrong Folks.
 

Mocame

Registered User
Messages
85
I am very sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time Madge78. In addition to seeking legal advice I would recommend asking advice from a local councilor. They are experts on many of the housing schemes operated by local authorities and should be able to give you advice about minimizing any clawback.
 

WillIBeRich?

Registered User
Messages
34
Let me know how you get on there too as I've tried that route, I had a lovely councillor helping me but to no avail, but please do try though as you might have better luck than me.

I am very sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time Madge78. In addition to seeking legal advice I would recommend asking advice from a local councilor. They are experts on many of the housing schemes operated by local authorities and should be able to give you advice about minimizing any clawback.
 

WillIBeRich?

Registered User
Messages
34
Is anyone here on year 18/19/20 of their contact yet? or is it still too early to be nearing the ends of our contracts. I have 6 full years to go till I'm nearing the end of my contract. when did people first take out these affordable homes? early naughties I'm sure.
 

Madge78.

Registered User
Messages
10
Hi Madge, my thinking would be that unless your property sells for over the original value price of 225K only then will you receive a return of money. if you sell for 225 or under all that money will go to the council. that's the way the clawback works in my contract with dlrcoco. now each council could have different clawback rules. I recommend you get an independent solicitor to look into your clawback & council contract. correct me if I'm wrong Folks.
Thankyou I'm on the case this morning and will keep you posted.
 

Mj 2021

New Member
Messages
1
Hi all. I was just wondering if anyone has completed the sale of their affordable house and if anyone can confirm for definite the clawback. Currently thinking of selling up my house but not quite sure what the council will get out of it. I have pumped plenty of money into the house over the years (living here for 14 years), getting an attic conversion, patio etc. The same houses in my estate are selling on average for €270,000 - €290,000. I've got an agent in and they reckon I could get €320,000 + with the attic done. I paid €200,000 for the house originally. If I sell will I be punished financially for getting the attic etc done or is the payment only based on what the house would sell for in it's original form?
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
13,221
If I sell will I be punished financially for getting the attic etc done or is the payment only based on what the house would sell for in it's original form?
You made the decision to enhance the property fully aware of the existence of claw-back stipulations and benefited from those enhancements up to now. That isn't a punishment, or if it is, it is self-inflicted.
 

John White

Registered User
Messages
5
Is anyone here on year 18/19/20 of their contact yet? or is it still too early to be nearing the ends of our contracts. I have 6 full years to go till I'm nearing the end of my contract. when did people first take out these affordable homes? early naughties I'm sure.
Im currently on year 18 of ours. We haven't lived in ours for 6 years as I had to move for a job. We have ours rented out, with FCCs permission. I was looking to try and release the equity we have built up in it so we can buy a new house in Cork. Im self employed and have a large chunk of savings so I was hoping to release equity to put towards a new house as I cannot get a mortgage at the moment. With Fingal, if I sell before 20 yrs they are entitled to 23% of the sale price of the house. After 20 years they get nothing.
 

Bobbyg

Registered User
Messages
215
Just be careful with that assumption as they may try to add the years yo haven't lived there to the clawback term if they can.
 

WillIBeRich?

Registered User
Messages
34
I was just thinking that Bobbyg & I was gonna ask you John White have the council not frozen your contract whilst your renting your AH apartment? as I got permission from the council to rent my AH apartment too but they had strict stipulations in place & the first one was that my contract would be frozen for the length of time I planned to have it rented out.
 

Donnie_Darko

New Member
Messages
1
Hi there, can anyone help me understand what the clawback rules are for Fingal Co Co?

If you've lived in property for just over 10 years??

I'd appreciate any info on this?

Thanks
 
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