Advice re PRTB and tenant who ran

D

dmos87

Registered User
Messages
413
Hi all.

Had a tenant in situ from July until end of January this year. Disaster from start to finish. Evicted for non-payment of rent. She disputed claiming it was an illegal eviction - it wasn’t, this was a delay tactic on her part. Just before our hearing with the PRTB, she ran. Keys were left at our personal home and damage done throughout the rental property. First tenant for us so naturally we were gutted, broke from servicing mortgage and management fees and of course frustrated.

That was end of Jan. I’ve been chasing the PRTB for the Enforcement Order so we can get payment tagged to her PPS. Today they sent a letter stating that unless we can provide them with a current address for said tenant, the case will be closed in two weeks time. The apparently cannot send out the documentation to one party without sending to the other. They have rung her requesting one, but she tells them she doesn’t have an address to provide.

The tenant hasn’t gone far, she’s living locally in a friends (I see her driving around often, it’s a small town). I know the estate she’s in, but can’t identify which house for an address. Her friend is in a council house and is not supposed to have a lodger or someone staying for more than 3 weeks, so I’d imagine she won’t provide the address because of this - her friend could get in trouble with the council.

Not a cent has been paid of what’s owing (€1,800). We’re not in a financial position to let this go.

Any advice on how we can proceed with getting the documentation from the PRTB without it being posted? Anyone had this happen before?
 
Letter can be sent to dept of social welfare quoting her pps number and asking for letter to be forwarded.

Thats one of the things they do when tracing missing persons, so its a normal practise.
 
The PRTB won't do this themselves. They will give up after a while of not locating the old tenant. Will the Soc. Welfare do this on foot of a request from a private individual ?
 
dmos87 said:
Today they sent a letter stating that unless we can provide them with a current address for said tenant, the case will be closed in two weeks time.
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Is this your interpretation of the letter, or, are this crowd actually holding you, with the responsibility for this action to succeed, based on your lack of knowledge, for the whereabouts of an alleged rouge tenant ?.

They have spoken to this person, they are aware she is not co-operating, and you, are held accountable for this...

I must be missing something in the opening post. Im aware they get some criticism, but can it be really this bad.
 
LS400 said:
Is this your interpretation of the letter, or, are this crowd actually holding you, with the responsibility for this action to succeed, based on your lack of knowledge, for the whereabouts of an alleged rouge tenant ?.

They have spoken to this person, they are aware she is not co-operating, and you, are held accountable for this...

I must be missing something in the opening post. Im aware they get some criticism, but can it be really this bad.
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Here is the letter word for word:

"Dear X,

I refer to your application to the Residential Tenancies Board for dispute resolution services and I wish to inform you that we do not have a current address for the respondent involved in this dispute. We have tried to locate a current address for the respondent and we have been unsuccessful.

In order to find current addresses for parties, we use information from other state bodies available to us under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, as well as the RTB internal database. We also use public information such as the Land Registry, the Vision-Net Database and other internet sources.

Unless you are in a position to provide us with a new address for this respondent within 14 days of the date of issue of this letter, we will be unable to process your dispute any further and the Board will deem your application withdrawn.

It is regretted that we were not in a position to assist you on this occasion.

Yours sincerely,


XXXXXX
Dispute Resolution Service"
 
dmos87 said:
Unless you are in a position to provide us with a new address for this respondent within 14 days of the date of issue of this letter, we will be unable to process your dispute any further and the Board will deem your application withdrawn.
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Shameful attitude... and quite condescending too.
 
dmos87 said:
Hi all.

Had a tenant in situ from July until end of January this year. Disaster from start to finish. Evicted for non-payment of rent. She disputed claiming it was an illegal eviction - it wasn’t, this was a delay tactic on her part. Just before our hearing with the PRTB, she ran. Keys were left at our personal home and damage done throughout the rental property. First tenant for us so naturally we were gutted, broke from servicing mortgage and management fees and of course frustrated.

That was end of Jan. I’ve been chasing the PRTB for the Enforcement Order so we can get payment tagged to her PPS. Today they sent a letter stating that unless we can provide them with a current address for said tenant, the case will be closed in two weeks time. The apparently cannot send out the documentation to one party without sending to the other. They have rung her requesting one, but she tells them she doesn’t have an address to provide.

The tenant hasn’t gone far, she’s living locally in a friends (I see her driving around often, it’s a small town). I know the estate she’s in, but can’t identify which house for an address. Her friend is in a council house and is not supposed to have a lodger or someone staying for more than 3 weeks, so I’d imagine she won’t provide the address because of this - her friend could get in trouble with the council.

Not a cent has been paid of what’s owing (€1,800). We’re not in a financial position to let this go.

Any advice on how we can proceed with getting the documentation from the PRTB without it being posted? Anyone had this happen before?
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You should show a bit more initiative if you know the estate she lives in. It cant be that difficult to spot coming from work or the shops and see which house she enters.
Of course you are also finding out that the PRTB are useless
 
From the RTB website

"
What happens if my contact details change and do not inform the other party or the RTB?
In addition to publically available records, the RTB have data sharing arrangements with a number of public bodies such as the Department of Social Protection and in most cases, can track the current addresses of non-compliant parties.

Any delay as a result of not engaging in the process may lead to additional costs being awarded against a non-compliant party in court."
Have you asked why they are not using these data sharing agreements?

Even if you get an address and get an Enforcement order are you ever likely to get any money? You can get a court order but if they still don't pay the burden of proof is on you to show they have the money and are wilfully refusing to pay.
 
dmos87 said:
Here is the letter word for word:

"Dear X,

I refer to your application to the Residential Tenancies Board for dispute resolution services and I wish to inform you that we do not have a current address for the respondent involved in this dispute. We have tried to locate a current address for the respondent and we have been unsuccessful.

In order to find current addresses for parties, we use information from other state bodies available to us under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, as well as the RTB internal database. We also use public information such as the Land Registry, the Vision-Net Database and other internet sources.

Unless you are in a position to provide us with a new address for this respondent within 14 days of the date of issue of this letter, we will be unable to process your dispute any further and the Board will deem your application withdrawn.

It is regretted that we were not in a position to assist you on this occasion.

Yours sincerely,


XXXXXX
Dispute Resolution Service"
Click to expand...

Waver said:
From the RTB website

"
What happens if my contact details change and do not inform the other party or the RTB?
In addition to publically available records, the RTB have data sharing arrangements with a number of public bodies such as the Department of Social Protection and in most cases, can track the current addresses of non-compliant parties.

Any delay as a result of not engaging in the process may lead to additional costs being awarded against a non-compliant party in court."
Have you asked why they are not using these data sharing agreements?

Even if you get an address and get an Enforcement order are you ever likely to get any money? You can get a court order but if they still don't pay the burden of proof is on you to show they have the money and are wilfully refusing to pay.
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They obviously have but have been unsuccessful.
 
My advice? It was only 6 months. You have to suck it up. You will not get costs here. I wouldn't consider it lesson learnt as it's an occupational hazard. (Speaking as someone who's been there)
 
Vanessa said:
You should show a bit more initiative if you know the estate she lives in. It cant be that difficult to spot coming from work or the shops and see which house she enters.
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Believe me, I'm trying. Unfortunately its a complex and I can't know for certain which internal property she's entering. Its incredibly frustrating. I have put feelers out though and am hoping to hear back. I'm also trying to track down her new workplace as the PRTB have said I can provide that address as an alternative.
 
Setanta12 said:
My advice? It was only 6 months. You have to suck it up. You will not get costs here. I wouldn't consider it lesson learnt as it's an occupational hazard. (Speaking as someone who's been there)
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It may have only been seven months but financially it hit us really hard and we're struggling to recover. She was our first tenant so there wasn't a 'kitty' of funds to sit on. We did all checks possible for references and rental history, we were just unlucky. The property will be going on the market in the next two weeks.

Theres also a second dispute case open for the damages caused to the property when she left - approx 1K. That dispute also lies on an address being needed but has not progressed as far as this one.

On principal I'm not willing to let this go - even if it takes years and I have to go to court to get it attached to her PPS, I will. Driving past my home every day giving smirky looks when she spots us, its so infuriating.
 
I feel sorry for you being stung like that.

Could you buy some helium-filled balloons and go to the apartment complex as if you are a delivery person and ask around? Someone might tell you which apt she's in (if they know).

For your own mental health you would probably be better off letting it go though.
 
What do you mean by getting it attached to her PPS? What do you think is going to happen? Even if you get an instalment order it is likely you will never see this money?
 
dmos87 said:
On principal I'm not willing to let this go - even if it takes years and I have to go to court to get it attached to her PPS, I will.
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Absolutely agree with you on that. If more property owners adopted a similar position, these folk who sponge off others may just think twice about their actions.

Its a spongers dream to hear the usual thoughts, not worth chasing, get on with your life, etc etc Well its not good enough in my book. All were doing is moving the problem next door, like a flippen merry go-round.


That pfo letter is an absolute disgrace from a State Body. How does that encourage anyone to play by the rules, when, in doing so, they put the onus of failure at your feet.
 
LS400 said:
That pfo letter is an absolute disgrace from a State Body. How does that encourage anyone to play by the rules, when, in doing so, they put the onus of failure at your feet.
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Exactly. The PRTB allowed her to open a dispute claiming we were illegally evicting her despite us providing all evidence that we hadn't. They allowed her to remain at the property for an additional 2 months while we waited for the hearing date. I am furious with them because they enabled her to take advantage and then just disappear before the hearing.

How its our responsibility to track her down is beyond me!
 
dmos87 said:
On principal I'm not willing to let this go - even if it takes years and I have to go to court to get it attached to her PPS, I will. Driving past my home every day giving smirky looks when she spots us, its so infuriating.
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You are in business, take your knocks and move on. There will be good days in the future as well.
 
My advice to 'move on' was based on a 'been there, seen that' incident. I took it as far as I could on principals, until I too received the same letter you did. I didn't have the money to throw away, on obtaining a judgement which would be ignored anyway.
 
LS400 said:
...If more property owners adopted a similar position, these folk who sponge off others may just think twice about their actions.....
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Reality check. The LL has no means or support from any public body in chasing down this client. Even if the LL does chase them down, there is no support in getting any restitution.
 
But that can is making a hell of a racket as it bounces down the road.

The sad truth starring you in the face is, there is more probability now of the same happening to you again, as rouge tenants see how easy it is to play games without repercussions.

There are approx 120000 committed Landlords in Ireland, including another 50000 accidental LLs, thats a heck of a lot of people power. If you had a similar per-portion of an entity in the public sector with a Trade Union fighting its cause, I can Guarantee you, there would be changes, but the sad reality is no Elected Public Representative is prepared to put their head above the parapet to shout "stop this nonsense" as, they will suffer from public backlash.

Irish Politics is not about doing the right thing, its about doing whats more popular than not, and until we have Politicians who buck the trend and jump off the gravy train, we will be having the same conversations in 10 years time.

There is another Gareth Fitzgerald out there some where, and no-doubt someone here has an issue or poison to drag up with his time in Politics, but imo, it was more about doing the right thing with him than the popular thing.

Btw, Im not a supporter of Fine Gael, I just admire good people.

So, @Setanta12 , in a proper functioning society, you would not have had to give up on your principles, more likely, this situation would probably never taken place.
 
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