Advice for disciplinary meeting

R

rogeroleary

Registered User
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I work for a large multinational, I was requested to attend a meeting late last year. I was advised that the was no suggestion I had done anything wrong but I could not talk to anyone about this. It transpired that there was a suggestion of wrong doing (nothing I would have benefited from), and subsequently I found out that quite a lot of other people attended similar meetings.

Now, a long time later, I have been asked to a disciplinary meeting - potentially with serious implications. The invitation has some allegations outlined and quotes from my own meeting. The thing is that although I was not allowed to bring anyone with me to the original meeting, immediately afterwards I wrote my own notes - quite comprehensive (about 4 pages), just in case.

The invite that was sent to me has some clear discrepanices with my own notes. I have asked for a copy of the full report and statements from anyone associated with my case. I am told these are not available to me and I feel that this undermines my defense.

My question is, at this stage, should I tell the hearing about my notes and the discrepancies between my notes and the charges.?

Any advice would be much appreciated,

Roy
 
If there are minutes to the meeting, you are entitled to a copy. If there are discrepancies, this should be highlighted to your employer. You are fully entitled to challenge them on incorrect information.

Do not attend any meeting without having all of these issues resolved.

Do not go to the meeting alone. If you are in a union, get in contact with them immediately. If you are not (which I presume you're not as you are looking for advice here), bring a friend or colleague with you to the meeting.

When it comes to disciplinary issues, employers usually bully their employees. They have the numbers and resources. Employees tend not to know what their rights are under employment law and what can and can't be done.

Best of luck.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
hrdoctor.ie (no connection) . They can give independent advice at reasonable rate. They can also provide support at meetings if required.
 

I presume you are working for an American company. Generally, these companies have more rules than any working Irish company. Frankly, I fail to understand how most of them actually operate with everything they strew in the way.

You seem to be a victim of this. They railroad you into not bringing any kind of witness to any meeting. I bet at these meetings the management have plenty of witnesses and probably everything is recorded without your knowledge which they will use against you.

You have no union representation and you are being forced to battle alone, which is not as daunting as you might think. Therefore, play by their rules and always remember surprise is of the essence. Keep taking notes, don't challenge anything until you have to, record everything even outside of meetings. And now for your secret weapon . . . purchase a recording device. They are no bigger than a cigarette box and slimmer and you will be able to furtively record everything live . Ensure you know how to use it and keep it on you at all times to record as much as you can. Believe me the company will lean on you and as soon as they get an advantage they will pounce.

No time for squeaky bum; buy the device and learn how to use it . . . it will become your best friend, believe me.

These recording devices are not expensive.
 
Personally. I would tell them that I wished to record the meeting because your last meeting ended up with discrepancies between what they are now saying and the notes that you took immediately after the interview.
 
Both Parties have to inform the other prior if any recording of the session is done, and very much advised if you cannot bring a legal advise with you. Agreed with previous comment, if notes were taken they are to produce a copy to you before you can accept the invite. Send them a written note that you have requested a copy of their notes on a specific date and are surprised that you were told they were not available to you, name also who provided the response and when ( guessing it was your manager). Insist you need the notes to prepare for your interview and understand the reason of the request for an interview.
 
More importantly on any recordings, both parties have to agree to it in advance. I can't imagine many would allow it.

Get a full copy of the companies disciplinary procedures. You are entitled to a copy of your meeting minutes and details of any allegation, but you are not entitled to minutes of meetings the company held with others.

Not allowing you to bring anyone to the original meeting was fine, but now it has moved to a disciplinary phase, you are entitled to bring along a colleague to act as a witness (they have no active part in the meeting). The person generally has to be an employee of the company, the company are under no obligation to allow external legal representation in internal disciplinary procedures.

So when asking for the procedures, as others have said, point out the discrepancies between your notes and what they had recorded.
 
I'm looking at some posts here and many are naive, to say the least. If we look at what the original poster is saying you will see that the employee is being treated unfairly and lies seem to be the order of the day in that company. Somebody suggested you ask that proceedings be recorded (even by both parties) as if this was ever going to be a runner, come on! Wake up, smell the coffee there is subterfuge afoot here. Use the recording device like I said. OK you might never be able to produce it in court, but you will have a verbatim account of what is being said against you. If nothing else it will help with your notes.

You can ask for full regulations, accusations, minutes of meetings and the Gospel according to St-Luke (as George Hook might say; I bet he will . . .) you can't beat a bit of devilment. cop on and intelligence. These companies thrive on kinds of bullying, subterfuge and lies. They know that you are probably not a member of a trades union and think they can deal with you any way they like. If you are serious about representing yourself to the best of your ability, spend the few bob on the recording advice (€30.00 or so), it will pay good dividends.
 

Thank you Steven, I appreciate the feedback. I know now that I am one of a large bunch of people invited to these meetings - all quite senior people in the organisation.

I have decided to go to the meeting, I had serious reservations. I have arranged for a good colleague to come along as scribe.

I believe I have done nothing wrong (and others I have spoken to are exactly the same) and the whole thing boils down to something an investigator felt we should have done (.ie get HR approval) when there is no policy that states this and none of us have ever heard of this before (most people involved have 20-30 years service)

Roy
 

Thank you Leper - I appreciate the detailed feedback, yes it's an American company and yes the level of bureaucracy it unbelievable to extent that sometimes the requirements are conflicting so it's a no win situation in the event of a process audit. Complicating factors are matrix management where managers in Dublin manage team in Europe / US and Asia while employees in Dublin work for managers in the US and China - sometimes local custom and practice is hard to understand for people from other geographies.

I hear what you are saying about the recording device - pity I hadn't thought of that for the original meeting but I do have a very good colleague to scirbe - she's like a rottweiler, she misses nothing.

Thank you,

Roy
 
Grizzly said:
Personally. I would tell them that I wished to record the meeting because your last meeting ended up with discrepancies between what they are now saying and the notes that you took immediately after the interview.
Click to expand...

Thanks Grizzly - they definitely wont allow that but I have my scribe teed up and I have told them I do not accept their notes as representative of the original meeting.
 

Thanks Chantilly, they wont give me the minutes. I have asked on 3 occasions at this stage (in writing), and I have screamed it out that I need these to prepare my defence. All that said I do not want to give them an opportunity to say I failed to adhere to their process so I will be attending with my scribe and reserving my position as the company has not facilitated my request.

thank you for the feedback & advice,

Roy
 

Thanks you Leo for the feedback - I appreciate it.

- I agree, I would be 99.99% sure they wont allow a recording
- They have provided disciplinary procedures - very, very, very high level
- They won't give me minutes of my own meeting.
- I believe I am entitled to minutes of other peoples meetings where it is alleged allegations were made about me. I understand from the people in question that they made no such allegations.
- Scribe is agreed in advance at this stage
- I have highlighted the discrepancies and my dissatisfaction with same

Thank you,

Roy
 
I'm wondering if you would have an entitlement under Freedom of information for the minutes.?
 

No problem, happy to help.

You're entitled to the allegation details, but not the minutes of meeting with others, even if those people made allegations against you.

The fact that they refuse to give you minutes of your own meeting weakens their case should it ever proceed further. Document all this, and get their refusal in writing. You could try the FOI approach as suggested above, a refusal there would also look bad for them.
 
thedaddyman said:
I'm wondering if you would have an entitlement under Freedom of information for the minutes.?
Click to expand...

The Freedom of Information applies to the public service but good idea.

Under the Data Protection Act, you are entitled to see a copy of the file they have on you. Look up the Data Protection Commissioner as there is a procedure you have to follow and you have to word your letter in a certain way. It doesn't happen quickly by the way.

I am almost sure under Employment Law you are entitled to see copies of the minutes taken in a disciplinary meeting. You should look it up.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
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