Accounting apprenticeship or Accounting degree?

[Blackrock1]

Heard that in the 80s too, and we all hear about the brilliance of the auditing of banks, Enron, in fact most financial scandals are attributed to the auditing by the big 4. Was Big 5 but when Arthur Andersen were caught essentially fiddling everything.

"Prestigious" indeed.

Regardless its still the case.

 

[T McGibney]

ACA is still the most ‘prestigious’ qualification, its the one I’d advise going for.

Heard that in the 80s too, and we all hear about the brilliance of the auditing of banks, Enron, in fact most financial scandals are attributed to the auditing by the big 4. Was Big 5 but when Arthur Andersen were caught essentially fiddling everything.

"Prestigious" indeed.

Very few ACAs audit any more though.

 

[Blackrock1]

Very few ACAs audit any more though.

Where do you get that from? All the trainees that go into big 4 (well 99% of them) do ACA, their managers are most likely ACA, as is the audit director and audit partner.

 

[T McGibney]

Where do you get that from?

Er, I work as an accountant, in practice. (I also audit.)

All the trainees that go into big 4 (well 99% of them) do ACA, their managers are most likely ACA, as is the audit director and audit partner.

Large firms are probably the only firms in the country doing much audit work anymore. Outside very large corporates, and regulated sectors like larger charities and regulated entities in the financial/insurance sectors etc, demand for audit services has fallen off a cliff as most other companies can avail of audit exemption. Even the Big 4 firms are far less reliant on audit work than they were 10, 20 or 30 years ago. Most newly-qualified ACAs these days will rarely if ever do audit work.

 

[Blackrock1]

Er, I work as an accountant, in practice. (I also audit.)

Large firms are probably the only firms in the country doing much audit work anymore. Outside very large corporates, and regulated sectors like larger charities and regulated entities in the financial/insurance sectors etc, demand for audit services has fallen off a cliff as most other companies can avail of audit exemption. Even the Big 4 firms are far less reliant on audit work than they were 10, 20 or 30 years ago. Most newly-qualified ACAs these days will rarely if ever do audit work.

i dont really agree with that statement, a certain portion may not but the audit departments in the large firms still take on a large amount of audit trainees and despite changes in the way you can qualify as an ACA id imagine the majority still come from the large firms by way of a training contract.

 

[T McGibney]

i dont really agree with that statement, a certain portion may not but the audit departments in the large firms still take on more audit trainees than anything else and despite changes in the way you can qualify as an ACA id imagine the majority still come from the large firms by way of a training contract.

I'm not sure that even contradicts what I've said.

 

[Blackrock1]

I'm not sure that even contradicts what I've said.

Im not going to get into it with you beyond reiterating that in my opinon your statement that very few ACA's audit is not accurate.

 

[T McGibney]

Im not going to get into it with you beyond reiterating that in my opinon your statement that very few ACA's audit is not accurate.

That's okay too.

 

[trajan]

Going back to that original question - should OP go with an ATI apprenticeship now and later switch to full accountant training or should OP do a related degree and then join an accounting firm while preparing for his professional final exams.

My first thought was that this choice of ATI qualification seems odd: if you are good enough to be a candidate for UCD commerce/accounting/economics you should be looking at an ACA articleship or apprenticeship as they call it today. As you see on the CAI page, your relation to the ATI programme need only last 1 year, the second year is optional - perhaps something those with no previous knowledge in accounting or business subject might want to avail of. I doubt if this would apply to you as you have studied the stuff at school.

So as I see it, your choice would be between the Accounting/Finance degree or the ACA apprenticeship.
Misemoi tells us of the Central bank scholarships which start at €27,000 (that's not to be sneezed at) and involve a Griffith College degree. A little bit of (economic) independence is needed to get the habit of responsibility - something most students don't seem to have or if they do can't express it in the sea of loud vulgarity known as student life. An 18 year old being a net provider to his home rather than a net expense will give you a status of sorts at home. I see no explicit mention of the Central Bank supporting your studies towards professional qualifications like ACA - but you can check up on that.
But there are plenty of accounting firms offering a similar sort of proposition, though maybe not as well paid as the Central Bank's one.

Previous posters have advised to get a degree and then train with a big 4 accounting firm.
I'm not an accountant so all I can say is what Michael Deeny said once about choosing a firm to train with: in a small audit firm you get to see all sorts of businesses and how they make their profits, in a large firm you can spend all your time working on the accounts of the same 3-4 huge companies. Granted Deeny never intended to be an accountant for long, he just wanted to get into business. If you want a professional career in audit and feel at ease with people from the corporate sphere then you may make a different decision.

So it's college life, Erasmus, academia, etc vs the pay, adult working environment and well-supervised progress of an apprenticeship in an audit firm. Only you or your parents (possibly teachers too) who have been looking at you and your motivation through your life can judge what is right for you.

One bit of advice I will give you regardless of which path you choose: always do regular exercise 6 days a week. This can be casual sport or just a workout on the floor at home though it's naturally more a total experience if it's with others in a gym or sportsfield. But get it done as it make you feel better and think clearer.