I think that this referendum will pass, the polls and the bookies both say it will.
I think it will pass also. Yes is currently 1/7 & No is 4/1. Most likely is Yes between 50 - 60% @ 8/13 with Ladbrokes.I saw polls saying 56%, doubt it will be that conclusive tbh.
Ohh, I like that! Can I use it?It can then become a tight church of believers, not this decaying veneer spread thin over a country that doesn't want it.
Is it not the case that the failings of the RC church have fundamentally changed how Irish people view the interaction of state legislation with religious morality. Private morality has always existed. Religions pretend that they are the originator of that morality but they are not.We can now see with this and the SSM referendum that the dreadful failings of the RC church have fundamentally changed how Irish people view the interaction of state legislation with private morality, for better or worse.
Ohh, I like that! Can I use it?
Best comment I've seen on this to date, and I've felt the same for a long time. Only thing in the way is the bishops who don't want to admit they've brought the place down around their ears. Interesting article here with recommendations for Ireland from a priest with experience of cultural Christianity in both the CofE and the USA, and a contrasting experience as a small religious minority in the southern US. He basically agrees with you too.I'm not usually one for sewing it into the church, but given the margin and on such a hot topic, I do think they need to pack the tent, rise out of education and health and come back as...wait for it.... a religion! Novel, drastic but the time for mass movement religion (no pun intended) is over. It can then become a tight church of believers, not this decaying veneer spread thin over a country that doesn't want it.
Interesting article and good points but his hearkening for a very conservative "high Church Anglican" type Church is, for me, a retrenchment back into a very conservative Church. It would have a very grey congregation and would die out with them.Interesting article here with recommendations for Ireland from a priest with experience of cultural Christianity in both the CofE and the USA, and a contrasting experience as a small religious minority in the southern US. He basically agrees with you too.
I've a lot of time for Diarmuid Martin. I think he's right in what he says here.Diarmuid Martin has often spoken against the Catholic Church in Ireland becoming a religion of a small minority, immune to outside influence. He thinks it would become isolated from broader society and have nothing to offer the world. I will add a source if I can find one.
I think that's a big difference between what the RC Church thinks it's offering and what it is offering. Fundamentally it, like all religions, thinks it is offering spiritual fulfillment. It thinks that spirituality and morality come from God. The majority of people seem to disagree. They see how there is a gulf between the words and the deeds of the RC Church, certainly historically. They see compassion to mean that you don't ostracise people because they are LGBT or were born outside marriage or are divorced etc. and so are at odds with the teachings of the Church.I understand where Diarmuid Martin is coming from but I think he's part of the problem. If the broader society wants nothing to do with the Catholic Church -- and with seven out of eight people under 35 voting for abortion, it absolutely doesn't -- it has no option but to retrench. What does Bishop Martin think the church is offering now, other than the fancy dress parties of first communions and weddings?
I see three things being conflated there: 1) is there a god who is the source of objective morality, 2) are some things objectively bad, 3) are there hypocrites in the RC church? Seems to me the answers to all three are somewhat independent of each other....It thinks that spirituality and morality come from God. The majority of people seem to disagree. They see how there is a gulf between the words and the deeds of the RC Church, certainly historically. They see compassion to mean that you don't ostracise people because they are LGBT or were born outside marriage or are divorced etc. and so are at odds with the teachings of the Church.
When I was a kid I was thought that God was love. In my simple childish mind that love was unqualified and compassionate. As I grew I found that to be incompatible with the teachings and practice of the Church.
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