Budget discussion "A Budget for Workers" - Discussion

[Purple]

€122,000 is the cost to taxpayers during the claim.

That excludes, as I said, costs after the claim.

After their claim is processed around two thirds are given leave to stay and, as I pointed out earlier, most of them work and contribute to the economy. I'm sure that few are net contributors but only around 20% of people are net contributors so that's not surprising. They are generally younger so they consume less healthcare and they are more likely to work so they are probably more economically useful than the native population within their income decile.

The vast majority of failed AS are allowed stay, and after their claim ends, are entitled to social housing + welfare + healthcare, just like anybody else.

Yea, they should be removed but if we let them stay they and their families should get the same resources as everyone else.

Even though their claims fail, they are given leave-to-remain. Why this is done, I don't know.

Either do I but the rates are dropping and the recent International Protection Act should see those numbers continue to reduce.

Of the 165,000 applicants, very, very few are removed, even though the Taoiseach himself stated that 80% are bogus.

Did he? That's surprising considering around two thirds of applications are sucessful.

Why we give leave-to-remain to failed, bogus AS, I do not know.

Total deportations are less than 1,000 of the 165,000.

Again, the majority are approved so it's not out of 165,000.

The relevance of this to the Budget is that workers must pay these huge costs. Workers pay for Trabolgan to make 58% net profits on providing accomm to bogus AS.

Yea, I'm not sure if there's much cost to workers since most workers get more back than they pay in and most of our tax revenue come from non payroll taxes.

Back on topic;
A budget for workers would see a broadening of the tax base so that there was a significant increase in indirect taxes such as property tax, inheritance tax, CAT and CGT, and local service charges, levying full PRSI on all income regardless of whether you are retired or not, making child benefit taxable etc. and then a corresponding reduction in payroll taxes. That would make work pay without causing inflation.

 

[Purple]

I presume you mean they are entitled to welfare and social housing only if their claim succeeds? it couldn't be the case that rejected claimants are still able to get welfare? I thought they just went under the radar into the dark economy working in the service industry.

As far as I know the illegal Irish immigrants in the USA still pay tax and their children still have access to education etc. I presume it is the same for their counterparts here.

 

[LLB123]

As far as I know the illegal Irish immigrants in the USA still pay tax and their children still have access to education etc. I presume it is the same for their counterparts here.

But historically they worked and do not have automatic access to welfare or state-funded housing/health benefits etc. Apples and oranges?

 

[Purple]

But historically they worked and do not have automatic access to welfare or state-funded housing/health benefits etc. Apples and oranges?

If they are in a relationship with a US Citizen they get to live in social housing. They are also entitles to emergency medical treatment. If they have children in the US then their children are US Citizens and have access to housing, education and healthcare.

Illegal immigrants here do not have access to housing or welfare supports and their children are not Irish citizens and do not have automatic access to housing or welfare.

 

[Protocol]

Illegal immigrants here do not have access to housing or welfare supports and their children are not Irish citizens and do not have automatic access to housing or welfare.

AS who cross our open border from Scotland / NI, with or without any documents, do have access to housing and welfare during their asylum claim.

• Housing = Direct Provision, taxpayer pays €99 pn, the Dutch pay €13.50 pn
• Welfare = small cash payment €38 per week (not regular welfare €240 pw)
• Plus healthcare

If their claim fails, which is the majority, as the Taoiseach confirmed that 80% AS are in fact economic migrants (therefore bogus), they are allowed to stay here (why, I don't know), and then they are entitled to full welfare + housing + healthcare:

• Housing = HAP or social housing list
• Welfare = the full range of full payments
• Healthcare = same as during claim

Therefore, illegal immigrants (bogus/failed AS), are given leave-to-remain, turning them into legal immigrants (even though their claim failed), and are then entitled, at huge costs to taxpayers, to all regular healthcare + housing + welfare.

Meanwhile, workers on €44,000 face a 47.2% marginal income tax rate.

 

[Purple]

AS who cross our open border from Scotland / NI, with or without any documents, do have access to housing and welfare during their asylum claim.

• Housing = Direct Provision, taxpayer pays €99 pn, the Dutch pay €13.50 pn
• Welfare = small cash payment €38 per week (not regular welfare €240 pw)
• Plus healthcare

If their claim fails, which is the majority, as the Taoiseach confirmed that 80% AS are in fact economic migrants (therefore bogus), they are allowed to stay here (why, I don't know), and then they are entitled to full welfare + housing + healthcare:

• Housing = HAP or social housing list
• Welfare = the full range of full payments
• Healthcare = same as during claim

Therefore, illegal immigrants (bogus/failed AS), are given leave-to-remain, turning them into legal immigrants (even though their claim failed), and are then entitled, at huge costs to taxpayers, to all regular healthcare + housing + welfare.

Throughout 2025, a total of 13,159 applications for international protection were lodged. The International Protection Office (IPO) issued a total of 19,558 decisions, 3,751 of which were positive. Among these, 3,481 decisions granted international protection to applicants, while 270 applicants were granted humanitarian permission to remain Source

There is also data on deportations and voluntary returns. In 2025 there were 205 deportations and 1496 voluntary returns. That is a significant increase on the previous year. There is no reason to believe that there will be a higher number leaving this year.

 

[Protocol]

Throughout 2025, a total of 13,159 applications for international protection were lodged. The International Protection Office (IPO) issued a total of 19,558 decisions, 3,751 of which were positive. Among these, 3,481 decisions granted international protection to applicants, while 270 applicants were granted humanitarian permission to remain Source

19,558 less 3,751 positive = over 15,000 refusals.

These people should all be removed from the country within a month of the refusal, on daily flights.

That does not happen, and thus huge costs are imposed on taxpayers, for decades to follow.

 

[joe sod]

Therefore, illegal immigrants (bogus/failed AS), are given leave-to-remain, turning them into legal immigrants (even though their claim failed), and are then entitled, at huge costs to taxpayers, to all regular healthcare + housing + welfare.

Are you sure about this, failed asylum seekers are still given access to healthcare, housing and welfare. Explain how this happens?

 

[Protocol]

Are you sure about this, failed asylum seekers are still given access to healthcare, housing and welfare. Explain how this happens?

Yes.
The majority of claims fail, see the data above.
The Taoiseach confirmed that 80% of AS are in fact economics migrants.

(A great example is the 94 American AS in the system - they are all bogus, and all their claims were refused.)

165,000 applications have been made since 1995. Ask yourself this: have 132,000 people been removed? No.

Instead, we give the failed AS "leave-to-remain". We let them stay.

Once they have leave-to-remain or subsidiary protection, even though their claim failed, then they can apply for and access the full suite of healthcare, housing and welfare.

 

[Purple]

Instead, we give the failed AS "leave-to-remain". We let them stay.

Once they have leave-to-remain or subsidiary protection, even though their claim failed, then they can apply for and access the full suite of healthcare, housing and welfare.

Have you got data to show the numbers who have been given leave to remain?
What is the mechanism they use to apply for and access the full suite of healthcare, housing and welfare?

The 165,000 figure you quote is actually the number of people who have become naturalised Irish citizens since 1995, not the total number of asylum seekers. The actual number of applications since 1990 (inclusive) is 167'715. There is no data on what proportion of them are still here or are in receipt of welfare and housing supports. Even if 75% of them were still in the country and half of those were receiving welfare that still just 1,800 people a year. Given that 77% of recent applicants work as soon as they are allowed to do so it is unlikely that the figure is that high.


In the context of a thread about a "Budget for Workers" the impact of Asylum seekers, positive of negative, is negligible. We spend €4.4 Billion on Childrens Allowance each year, €11.1 Billion on State Pensions and a whopping €39 Billion on Healthcare. If you want to know where the taxes of someone on €44,000 a year go then that's where to look.

The good news is that if the person on €44,000 a year has children or accesses any housing supports then they are getting way more back from the State than they are paying in taxes.

 

[financialtips]

A balanced immigration policy doesn't have to be anti-immigration. In fact, countries with ageing populations and labour shortages need inward migration. The real question is how you structure the system.

Personally, I'd prefer something closer to the Australian model. Australia actively attracts skilled migrants and workers, but most new permanent migrants face significant waiting periods before accessing many welfare payments. For example, many working-age income supports have a four-year waiting period, with longer residence requirements for certain pension entitlements.

Ireland takes a different approach, relying largely on the Habitual Residence Condition rather than fixed waiting periods. While there are eligibility checks, there isn't the same broad statutory delay before access to many means-tested payments.

My own view is that we should continue to welcome people who come here to work, pay taxes and contribute to the economy, but welfare access for new economic migrants should be more closely aligned with Australia's approach. That isn't about excluding people; it's about maintaining public confidence that immigration is primarily serving economic and labour market needs, while ensuring the welfare system remains sustainable for those who have contributed into it over time.

In short: encourage migration, reward work, and make long-term welfare dependency less attractive. That's a position I think many people across the political spectrum could support.

 

[Purple]

while ensuring the welfare system remains sustainable for those who have contributed into it over time.

That would exclude a sizable cohort of native born Irish people who have never contributed anything.

In short: encourage migration, reward work, and make long-term welfare dependency less attractive.

See above; that's a much broader issue but I agree with you.

 

[Purple]

None of the last few posts are relevant to a discussion about it being a budget for workers.

 

[financialtips]

That would exclude a sizable cohort of native born Irish people who have never contributed anything.

I think if job seekers was scaled back over time for those long term unemployed it would encourage the non contributors into the workforce. I honestly think the generational social welfare dependants could flourish if suitably incentivized to work and pay tax.

 

[financialtips]

None of the last few posts are relevant to a discussion about it being a budget for workers.

It surely is as we are discussing what happens with the tax take from our contributions....

 

[Purple]

It surely is as we are discussing what happens with the tax take from our contributions....

It constitutes a tiny proportion of the tax take. All payments to long term unemployed people and Asylum Seekers together are significantly smaller than the cost of Children's Allowance and Crèche subsidies. We spend around €1.9 Billion on unemployment benefits and around €1.1 Billion on the Asylum system. Children's allowance and Crèche subsidies costs more than €4 billion.

 

[financialtips]

It constitutes a tiny proportion of the tax take. All payments to long term unemployed people and Asylum Seekers together are significantly smaller than the cost of Children's Allowance and Crèche subsidies. We spend around €1.9 Billion on unemployment benefits and around €1.1 Billion on the Asylum system. Children's allowance and Crèche subsidies costs more than €4 billion

I guess im happier to pay towards the childrens allowance & creche subsidies. Dolies & asylum seekers not so much....