50 and confused. Wanting to plan to step back from pressurised role

ThisisMax said:
I'm not going to give you financial advice as I think everyone covered it above....

I'm the same age as you with kids a bit older. I wanted to comment on the burnout piece if I may.
You have achieved a lot and are very secure and have weathered the storm in getting there - well done.
Similar to you I had a pretty high pressure (but not as well paid) job in the past and was on the same trajectory. Stress, juggling and a lot of late nights, early starts were par for the course for me. I did a Post Grad, then a Masters while my kids were very young and the sky seemed the limit.
Like you I felt really burned out, no time to enjoy success, constant knawing feeling of not being on top of things. Mentally not great.
I ignored the burn out feelings for a long time, started to work with a therapist who told me in no uncertain terms that I needed to radically change. I didn't really listen.
I was flying to the states a good bit for work and feeling more burnt out than normal. In 2010, pre conference, just off a plane, in a hotel in the USA I suffered a burnout that left me hospitalised and in a psyc secure ward. The worst time of my life. I came home, got referred to a psychiatrist, emergency team and my GP. I spent nearly two years in a state of constant panic, anxiety and at times very low mood. I could not work, I didnt hear from my colleagues, work dried up. I started working with a psychotherapist to see how to fix this and I developed a great relationship with her. She passed away suddenly. Rock bottom.

I was really lucky - I found a phenomonal psychotherapist who pieced my life back together. He got me living, got me to see life differently . Got me to listen to the voice inside that would not accept my efforts.
I went freelance, I developed a chronic pain condition that Iive with today. I worked as best as I could, I spent so much time with my family, I upskilled, managed on very little money and got better. Its now 13 years from that time. I'm happy, relatively well, have enough but not lots of money, I check in with my psychotherapist, I am a help line volunterer for the Samaratains, I am re- training to be a psychotherapist. I play cards with my kids every day and watch them grow up before me. Simple stuff.

Why am I telling you all this stuff? Because we only get about 4000 weeks on this earth. We get a daily small oppprtunities to interact with our kids and then they are gone, they disapear and they grow up and away.

I think its great you got financial success but be careful about looking for more. Why more? You are 50, same age as me. Time to reflect, maybe think about what you want, not ignore the burnout feelings. I ignored it and it taught me a big life lesson. Now I'm the happiest I have ever been, I do not have the financial security I wanted but I don't have stress or a boss or a feeling I'm not achieving. I'm doing OK. Maybe the big push for security is your thing but don't let it de-rail your life, look after yourself, we are fragile sometimes, we lose our way, get sick, things happen quickly. If you are feeling burnt out now have a plan to not get burnt out and put it into place.
Hope this is not too much of a big long saga but nobody told me what burnout could do.
If you are looking for the bigger house/ car/ whatever bear in mind you are creating more constraints and difficulty for yourself - sometimes for something you don't need. I wish you the very best, happiness, health and contentment. Your kids are young still but gone soon enough. Create experiences!
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Thanks so much for an honest reply. How kind of you to share your experience and thoughts. I recognise the need to cop on. The problem is I’ve done so for some time and failed. Fail, fail again, fail better.
 
Very interesting situation DeeKie. And it shines a light on those who think that high earners have a great life. In my experience, you don't earn a big income for nothing. It is certainly not a 9 - 5 job.

There are a number of things that jump out at me:

  1. Job - you are a partner in a big enough firm and the other partners want you to become managing partner (that is often because no one wants the hassle). How easy is it to go from that position to a role of €100k? Are there any restrictions in setting up your own firm and having a lifestyle business where you can work with a smaller number of clients, earn decent money and not have huge stresses?
  2. House - I am guessing if your current home is valued at €850k but is a bit small of 4 people, it's in the Ranelagh/ Rathmines/ Rathgar area or something similar. If you are stressed already, getting an extension is not the way to go as it is a highly stressful project and extremely time consuming (spending weekends looking at taps and floor tiles!). Being able to buy a house that is ready to move into will be a lot easier. If you need a mortgage, you have to manage the work situation as you will have to be a permanent employee or have 3 years accounts if self employed.
  3. Lifestyle - how will you adjust to going from €400k+ a year income to €100k income? It is a massive drop in income and you will need to look at your numbers to see if there are any changes to be made to your outgoings. You will still have enough money to live on, but you may need to think about some of the expenditures where you don't need to now. On the flip side, you will have more time to spend with your kids, time you won't get back. It won't be too long that they just want you to give them a lift and they want to do everything with their friends. You need to enjoy that time while you can.
You'll be alright. You just need to get your ducks in a row and have a bit of certainty about the future.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
DeeKie said:
Thanks so much for an honest reply. How kind of you to share your experience and thoughts. I recognise the need to cop on. The problem is I’ve done so for some time and failed. Fail, fail again, fail better.
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Its no problem. Our mental health is so, so important. How we think about things shapes the world we are in. Start small. Take a half day off, go for a sauna, do an extra school pick up. Build on these. You will want to keep pushing and doing but in time you can build in a bit of relaxation which makes work stuff better. Bear in mind your 50's are tricky, energy changes, hormones change, testosterone (if you are a man) drops, mood can be more difficult to manage.
 
Its good that you have you have realised now that you need to make changes and your asking for advice. I would look at buying a bigger house that does not need an extension or major work. Sell your current home when you move into the new house as it will be vacant and the new owners can move in quickly.
I would also get your doctor to sign you off work due to stress. From what you have told us here that you had to deal with a lot personally recently and on top of this you have a very stressful job.

I know that your planning leaving your current job in say 6-12 months time.
Would your job let you work as a consultant for 2/3 days a week to keep you with them? Have you spoken to people in your industry to see what's available even as a consultant? I think in your situation I would be looking to work 2 or 3 days a week. This would give you more family and down time.

I would agree with what another poster said here about your 50s and it can be a tricky time due to energy changes ect. One of my friends are making plans similar to yours to improve their life now and in the future. I know several people in their 50s who would walk out of jobs tomorrow if they were in your financial position.
 
If you can use your €300k to upgrade to a house that will do you for the next 20 years, then do it.

If you and your other half then have a combined income of 200k to support your family without a mortgage, that’s more than enough.

Your disposable income will increase anyway when your children leave college so you’ll need less to maintain the lifestyle you’re currently on.

It’s difficult to maintain a balance. While your children would like you at home 24/7, it’s also important for them to look to you (both parents) as people who are able to progress professionally whilst maintaining a strong sense of family.

Never an easy balance to strike but we all do our best. Good luck.
 
@ThisisMax I remember at the end of the celtic tiger there were alot of high achievers with expensive lifestyles etc that couldn't cope when the crash came. They hid it from their wives and social set etc. They felt that they couldn't open up because maybe they thought that they were nothing without those posessions and that their wives and social set would desert them if they did. Its probably the case that some people are not confident that their relationships will survive the loss of status and material wealth
 
Is it worth confiding in one or some of your partners? Perhaps there are other options you’re not aware of? e.g. a paid sabbatical of one year where they pay you €100k a year. Or a step-back to a consultancy role where they pay you €100k a year. A problem shared is a problem halved.
 
Not possible Gordon due to the changes recently in the partnership. No plan b possible around me at the moment.
 
joe sod said:
@ThisisMax I remember at the end of the celtic tiger there were alot of high achievers with expensive lifestyles etc that couldn't cope when the crash came. They hid it from their wives and social set etc. They felt that they couldn't open up because maybe they thought that they were nothing without those posessions and that their wives and social set would desert them if they did. Its probably the case that some people are not confident that their relationships will survive the loss of status and material wealth
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Yes I remember the impact of the crash acutely. I’d just become a salaried partner. It sounds a bit odd but for me it’s never been about the money. I like the job. There’s just too much of it.
 
I have no qualifications in any kind of psychiatry or even financial stuff. You're 50, a high earner, financially comfortable, sensible and have the maturity to question yourself. You can't go from full speed to full stop in an instant without repercussions. On a brighter note I would advise you exit the rat race fully around the time you reach 55. You now have 5 years to drift into easing your life and you can live comfortably whether you have moved house or not.
 
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DeeKie said:
Yes I remember the impact of the crash acutely. I’d just become a salaried partner. It sounds a bit odd but for me it’s never been about the money. I like the job. There’s just too much of it.
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So you get satisfaction from your role but its too pressured? Which bits are the best bits and which could you leave behind? For some people the sales piece is the buzz, others its technical etc. What floats your boat?
The process of re-invention, which is what you are doing is littered with false starts, dead ends etc. Thats the natural part of the process. They educate you as much as anything else. I think you need to do a few scenarios out on paper- more family time/ less salary, more family time/ more salary, less salary/ what would I give up, etc. There is also the option of moving job.....however to move to 100k salary results in a few things:
1. Better work life in terms of business hours buuuuuutttt....if you are driven by challenge, pressure, risk or financial security you might not like better work life...
2. 100k salary is a drop for you but in many organisations its the top of the tree- what effort do you expect to give to gain that? Will they expect travel? 80 hour weeks? If so then you have traded down for nothing. You still have your work life issue...
3. Can you achieve 100k in a start up of your own? Consulting?
4. What if you said to your partners that you are looking to change- what would they say?
 
Just a thought…

You are considering trading up from a €900k house because it’s too small for your family’s needs. Given the numbers involved, I am guessing that you live in a central Dublin suburb.

Would you consider moving to an outer suburb, or a neighbouring county, to achieve the increased house space?

Let’s say you bought a big family home for around €600k (roughly twice the national average).

Between the equity released from your current home, your pension pot and your after-tax savings, you could actually consider retiring completely from paid work, assuming you kept your household spending under around €45k pa.

Sure, it would a radical change of pace. But isn’t that what you’re looking for?
 
Ciaran6410 said:
Is hiring additional skilled resources within the business an option? A number 2 which can help carry the load.
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Yes. I’ve tried to recruit a number 2 for over a year. Had to settle for someone way more junior recently. I’d hired a headhunter after failing to recruit directly for about 8 months. Was looking for 17 months in total. Brutal market at the moment.
 
Sarenco said:
Just a thought…

You are considering trading up from a €900k house because it’s too small for your family’s needs. Given the numbers involved, I am guessing that you live in a central Dublin suburb.

Would you consider moving to an outer suburb, or a neighbouring county, to achieve the increased house space?

Let’s say you bought a big family home for around €600k (roughly twice the national average).

Between the equity released from your current home, your pension pot and your after-tax savings, you could actually consider retiring completely from paid work, assuming you kept your household spending under around €45k pa.

Sure, it would a radical change of pace. But isn’t that what you’re looking for?
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That’s something that has crossed my mind but I’d go nuts fully retired at 50. I was looking for financial advice so I can step back but I’m not ready to step away.
 
ThisisMax said:
So you get satisfaction from your role but its too pressured? Which bits are the best bits and which could you leave behind? For some people the sales piece is the buzz, others its technical etc. What floats your boat?
The process of re-invention, which is what you are doing is littered with false starts, dead ends etc. Thats the natural part of the process. They educate you as much as anything else. I think you need to do a few scenarios out on paper- more family time/ less salary, more family time/ more salary, less salary/ what would I give up, etc. There is also the option of moving job.....however to move to 100k salary results in a few things:
1. Better work life in terms of business hours buuuuuutttt....if you are driven by challenge, pressure, risk or financial security you might not like better work life...
2. 100k salary is a drop for you but in many organisations its the top of the tree- what effort do you expect to give to gain that? Will they expect travel? 80 hour weeks? If so then you have traded down for nothing. You still have your work life issue...
3. Can you achieve 100k in a start up of your own? Consulting?
4. What if you said to your partners that you are looking to change- what would they say?
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Acutely aware of 1 and 2 as I’ve clients in these roles. On number 3 the insurance is a killer, and you have to pay for insurance for 7 years after you cease trading, which means that if I don’t like it or it’s not successful it’s a very big penalty. 4. Can’t say it to them. You are fully committed until you are not, and then you are replaced.
 
Leper said:
I have no qualifications in any kind of psychiatry or even financial stuff. You're 50, a high earner, financially comfortable, sensible and have the maturity to question yourself. You can't go from full speed to full stop in an instant without repercussions. On a brighter note I would advise you exit the rat race fully around the time you reach 55. You now have 5 years to drift into easing your life and you can live comfortably whether you have moved house or not.
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Thanks. I think I need good financial advice to try to get some passive income or investment income recurring after we buy this house (still the highest bidder). I’d probably roll the dice in a year or so.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Wonder did the other high achievers hide their problems from their husbands?

Or is the 'burying heads in sand' considered to be male trait only?
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There were some very sad outcomes at the end of the crash. It was a tough time for many of all genders, pay grades etc. I’m mindful of seeing a few downturns and that if I manage a decent age I will see at least one again.
 
DeeKie said:
Acutely aware of 1 and 2 as I’ve clients in these roles. On number 3 the insurance is a killer, and you have to pay for insurance for 7 years after you cease trading, which means that if I don’t like it or it’s not successful it’s a very big penalty. 4. Can’t say it to them. You are fully committed until you are not, and then you are replaced.
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I just re read your whole post.
The only way to get the lifestyle mix you want is to move away from your role and find another role.
You are not going to be able to reduce/ go part time so that seems clear to me.
However you have a superb financial situation - you are just used to working so hard to achieve 400K a yyear.
Even if you went down to 100K a year your partner is also earning 100K a year and you have no mortgage, good pension and college worked out.
If you dont leave you run the risk of burnout which will stop you properly transitoning to another role and as I said before if you burn out like I did then you have no resources to handle deep change.
I would not stay in that role, I'd develop an exit strategy and really look at my lifestyle to see whaere I need 400K a year for.
Also a lot of your thinking is around your house.
Will it really cost 300K for an extension?
Would you move somewhere else for better quality of life and a bigger house and sell your house? (More cash)
It depends on what quality of life you want but you have equity enough to set you up somewhere else.
I don't think I'd buy a bigger house for 1.2m
 
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