44% of those with children 'better off on dole'

I'd have to call into question some of their figures:

A childless worker would need €7,000 a year to cover expenses such as lunches and commuting - working out at €140 per week.

That's an outrageuous figure, anyone working has the option of bringing lunch with them that would cost the same as what they would need to eat at home. My equivalent cost would be the cost of a tax free commuter ticket after tax a year, so < €500. Obviously some people may have long commutes and no public transport options but 7,000?

There's also the non-financial aspect of being a good role model to your children and working for a living!
 
It really beggars belief that those who are getting up every morning at 7am dropping the kids to creches and schools before working an 8-12 hour day,5-6 days a week are actually worse off than someone who is unemployed...

At a time when we are borrowing massively and taxing the working class to penury to support this madness,how in the name of God does that make any sense whatsoever??

This has to stop immediately,enough is enough.
 
We need to be very careful here when reports like this come out. The vast majority of people do not want to be unemployed. Of course there are some who abuse the system but let's not start condemning every unemployed person for 'choosing the dole'. The most interesting thing is that since I am going to be unemployed soon, it sounds like it might actually pay for me to have kids which is ridiculous.
 
Time for my hobby horse :)

A creche can cost much the same as second mortage
Yet the staff are not well paid, not much more then minimum wage

I know there is insurance and other costs
But where is the money going? Must be the owners. They certainly aren't paying their staff big money

Why can't the State step in and run a network of creches at cost price.
It'll still cost the parents but not the current ridiculous sums.
And the staff get a decent wage too


Oh I know the State can be inefficient and not be able to deliver some services but this should be looked at I think

Joan Burton has no interest in this
Senator Kathleen O'Meara in Labour Party from North Tipp was big on this issue but she didn't get elected as a TD and isn't a senator anymore
 
The link in the OP now links to a story saying that they have withdrawn this report.

The ESRI has taken the unprecedented step of withdrawing the working paper that stated that up to 44% of unemployed families were better off on the dole.
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I assume thats not what it said when it was originally linked? I heard the story on the radio earlier but no details.

@circle - the 7000 a year expenses, I assume this covers the commute, lunches, clothes for work, personal grooming expenses? It still sounds too high.
 
truthseeker said:
The link in the OP now links to a story saying that they have withdrawn this report.



I assume thats not what it said when it was originally linked? I heard the story on the radio earlier but no details.

@circle - the 7000 a year expenses, I assume this covers the commute, lunches, clothes for work, personal grooming expenses? It still sounds too high.
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That is shocking. To release a report like that into the public domain and not be able to stand over the figures is disgraceful. Time for the ERSI to vanish as this is not the first time.
 
I heard the acting CEO of the National Wemmens Group on RTE radio this morning saying that we needed the government to spend more money on childcare and support for wemmen, especially in the first year of a child’s life.
She said we needed to move to the Scandinavian model (she didn’t say which one which was strange as they vary greatly from country to country). She said that it could be paid for by introducing a third rate of tax for those earning over €100K a year. She didn’t seem to think that increasing the marginal rate of income tax from well over 50% to god knows what would be a disincentive to work. She also didn’t offer any cost analysis. Very poor and unprofessional performance, the sort of thing you’d expect from a transition year student at a debate who was caught on the hop and who hadn’t done ant research.
I have 4 children and I did all of the night feeds etc on all of them (yes, they weren’t breast fed ;)) so I know that it’s hard work but I think the State, i.e. my neighbours taxes, does more than enough as it is. Considering the state the country is in I’d be in favour of cuts to child benefit (and it’s removal from high income families) and large reductions to maternity and parental leave.
 
Sunny said:
That is shocking. To release a report like that into the public domain and not be able to stand over the figures is disgraceful. Time for the ERSI to vanish as this is not the first time.
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Appears to have been pulled for political reasons.
Richard Tol wrote the paper.
The ESRI say that it was pulled as there was need for significant correct - as stated by a journal where it was to be published.
The correction appears to be in terms of written style only, according to Richard Tol.
The ESRI say that it was not peer reviewed.
Richard Tol says that working papers in the ESRI were never peer reviewed, they were informally reviewed only and this had happened.
Richard then says the paper is being rewritten to deal with the errors in written style mentioned by the journal.

Again it seems like the ESRI are worried about creating headaches for the politicians - not about truth.

EDIT:
The ESRI themselves define "working papers" as:
ESRI working papers represent un-refereed work-in-progress by researchers who are solely responsible for the content and any views expressed therein. Any comments on these papers will be welcome and should be sent to the author(s) by email. Papers may be downloaded for personal use only.
So their complaint that this particular working paper had to be removed because it was not "peer reviewed" appears even more ludicrous.
 
Superman said:
Again it seems like the ESRI are worried about creating headaches for the politicians - not about truth.
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Pretty typical of the ESRI.

The lack of warning signs / alarm bells about the property bubble/banking sector was telling.
 
cork said:
Pretty typical of the ESRI.

The lack of warning signs / alarm bells about the property bubble/banking sector was telling.
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Absolutely. The ESRI are another useless quango that should be disbanded immediately.
 
circle said:
A childless worker would need €7,000 a year to cover expenses such as lunches and commuting - working out at €140 per week.
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I live in Dublin North East and work in South County Dublin. My DART & LUAS fares total €42.50 a week. If I drove, petrol, tolls & parking charges would total a similar figure.

I make my own sandwiches for my lunch. That's less easy to cost, but probably around €10 per week.

What am I missing out on by not spending €80/€90 difference between my costs and those suggested by a body of professionals ?
 
I have a friend that was living in Kildare and worked in North Dublin. He reckoned he spent over €100 a week on petrol and tolls.
People that live in commuter towns and have to drive to work in Dublin must be spending big money on petrol.
 
TarfHead said:
I live in Dublin North East and work in South County Dublin. My DART & LUAS fares total €42.50 a week. If I drove, petrol, tolls & parking charges would total a similar figure.

I make my own sandwiches for my lunch. That's less easy to cost, but probably around €10 per week.

What am I missing out on by not spending €80/€90 difference between my costs and those suggested by a body of professionals ?
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Do you need specific work clothes (suits, uniform)? Dry cleaning of work clothes? Lunch out with work mates on fridays? Donations for leaving presents for people?

All these things add up.
 
homeowner said:
All these things add up.
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True. As do shop-bought coffees and cupcakes and other luxuries that some people class as daily spend. The number of people I see using the DART and LUAS each day and the number of people I see eating their own home-made lunch suggest to me that my experience is not unique.

While there are people who are faced with ridiculous commutes through bad planning, I believe the 7K is not too high be be accepted as representative.
 
I believe the State should be stepping in and providing top class services but also ensuring value for money
No wastage with taxpayers money :)


You two are awful cynical...........in your old age ;)
 
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