40 years ago parents provided site to coco & then rented: now we want to buy house.

E

exasperated

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Hi

Just looking for some help with regard to buying my deceased mothers house from the council.

My mother died suddenly a few months ago and was living in a council house at the time. She lived in the house for 37 years.

At the time my father and she got married they didnt have the money to build a house but had some land so there was a scheme in place whereby you signed over half an acre to the council and they then lent the money to build the house and you then in effect rented it from them like a standard council house until you had the option to buy.

To make a long story short my father died suddenly 8 yrs after they married and she suffered serious depression etc which wasnt recognised at the time and was left with 4 children under the age of 7. She never recovered from this and even though she had the option to purchase she never had the money to do so even though as we got older we offered to help her do so.

The issue has arisen now that she has died and the only person that was named on the tenancy was my brother who has no interest in buying out the hse. Myself and my sister wish to do so but obviously the council with not allow us to.

The house is derelict at present and because it was so badly built at that time would now cost the council more to fix it to european standards and put another family in there than it would to sell it to us.

I know council housing is there for families in need and I would never like to take from that but the land it sits on is in our family for over a hundred years and we would like to keep it in the family.

The councils concern seems to be that they fear we will try to make a profit on the land by selling it on or using the family home as a holiday home.

I dont really know how they think we could do so as there is no running water or electricity in it at present due to burst pipes during the bad weather and the ceiling caving in.

I also have to mention my brother wont buy it out in his own name even if we give him the money to do so as he would then lose his 1st time buyers status which i can understand also things between us and him are quite strained since my mother's death due to other reasons which i wont go into.

The council are now trying to strong arm him into signing the house back to them and making him liable for any damage on the house even though he was never a tenant on the house in his own right. They have told him that we have had enough time to decide what to do about the house and remove her possessions and that we now have to hand the house back within the next few days.

May i add that only my brother lives in the local where the house is and that the rest live quite far away so it is difficult for us to get there at any time.

We havent removed her possessions as we thought legally we were not allowed to enter the house and now only have 2 days to organise everything.

Basically im looking for advice from anyone who may have been in a similar situation at any stage and how it worked out.

Thanks
 
The council seem like a nasty crowd to deal with.
Sounds like you are in the stronger position because of who owns the land.
If your family own the land, how about threaten to knock the house.....
Then just rebuild another one.
 
That scheme that the house was built under involves a transfer of land and so the land and property belongs to the council outright, on transfer of the land the council build the house and allow it to be rented.

We live in one of these houses that was never bought out by the first occupants, when they passed on the house went back to the council and was put up for new tenancy.

There are a number of these properties around the area I live and all have had the same faith if they were not bough out by the tenants they fell back to the council.

Occasionally the council do sell them I've seen a few sold by Tender but not in recent years.

When a tenant buys out a council property they buy it under a tenant purchase scheme which is a claw back scheme, this means if they sell the house within 20 years they must repay part of the profit. If you are not the tenant I don't see how they could enforce the same conditions?

The only option would be for your brother to buy it but then he wouldn't be able to sell it on to you without paying off the council.

Can I ask if you all live so far away why do you want to buy it?
 
cuppatea is correct the land had to be signed over at the time so we cant threaten to knock the house etc.

Basically the reason we want to buy it is because of sentimental reasons it was our family home we grew up there and my mother endured the hardest times of her life there after the death of my father. Whilst its a grim past the house was my mothers life and it meant so much to her aside from this it sits on land that has been in my family for over a hundred years and we just want to keep it in the family for that reason.

We have been advised by the council that even if we did manage to buy it that we would never get permission to build a new house there and that the septic tank that is there is not a proper one as they never put one in at the time the house was built (dont understand exactly why this happened). Aside from this the septic tank that is there for the house does not fall in the boundaries of the half acre that the house sits on and that the council would take back so in effect they will be taking back a house that does not have a septic tank. The septic tank sits on land that we will own once my mothers probate goes through and part of the land they will be taking would also take the two rights of way we have into a field.

As you can see this is a very messy situation. They seem to think that we will make some profit by taking the house. I dont see how we can as the house will have to be knocked regardless of who gets it us or the council and a whole new septic tank installed which they say percolation tests will not allow us to do either.

again any advice is appreciated
 
the council have alot of power and if they take back the house they will no doubt get planning through for their own new septic tank dispite the perculation problems , there are ways around this (especially if your the council!!) they could leave the house sitting until they have the money to refurbish it for tenants, the standard they need for it to be put up for tenants is not high. The cottage we are in needed a bit of work but this is done to a very basic standard and there is no way they would knock and rebulid. A 'sink' is considered a kitchen!

I am sure there is huge sentimental value attached to the property, really for the home to remain in the family the property should have been bought at some point during the tenancy as that is how it is set up. The council are very set in their rules and getting them to sway at all is almost unheard of. They can't be seen to just sell properties to people and if they do it in your case they would be open to having to do it for others.

I would suggest you get a good local counselor on your side, then again they have probably already been targeted by someone on the housing list who is inline for that property. It's a tricky situation but going up against the council is like trying to nail a bubble to a wall!!!
 
Hi Cuppatea

thanks for your advice. we tried many times to persuade my mother to buy the house, she did go about it many years ago but she went through another tragedy and never came out of it. Its hard to explain what happened and i dont really want to go into it here.

I have approached 3 separate counsellors and none of them have been able to help. As for what you said about the rules been waived for us and then having to do so for others i understand that and it has already been done with the same council on other occassions but obviously they have had better luck than us.

Thanks for your help
 
I don't get the sentimental reason for wanting to own a derelict house far away from where you live.
 
Its the family home we grew up there, there are a lot of memorys both good and bad it would be nice to be able to go back to it every now and again memories mean alot to most people.
 
As i've already said no we do not want to use it as a holiday home the house is derelict at present so it would be impossible to live there i just want to keep it in the family i am hoping to move back there eventually i just cant at present due to work commitments.
 
Have you offered your brother the amount of the first time buyers grant (which incidentally I thought was removed in the last budget)

How come the house is so sentimental to you and your sister and not your brother. How much would it cost to do up?

Are there two or 3 pieces of land. One with the house built on it, another with the septic tank and a third, a field which will be landlocked once the council gets the house back?
 
The 1st time buyers grant is gone i said 1st time buyers status if your a 1st time buyer you can get preferential rates for a mortgage.

I dont know why my brother doesnt hold the same sentiments as me or my sister thats his own business and one he doesnt wish to share with anyone including us.

The land as a whole is one piece but the acerage the house sits on is in the middle of the land that will eventually belong to us, so essentially the council can put strangers in the home we grew up in, which they are entitled to do if the house goes back to them, and the way the half acre they will take with the house is marked on the map it will take the right of way into one of the fields we will own so we will not have access to that field unless the council allows us to do so. The septic tank is outside of the half acre the council will take it is in the land we will own basically the boundaries werent marked correctly when the house was built by the council and it has never been addressed until now as we were not aware that this was the case.
 
Moved from Mortgages and buying and selling homes to the subforum Affordable housing and shared ownership which is where this kind of question (buying from council etc) is dealt with in AAM.

Title reflected to better reflect question.

I think the original scheme was known as the Rural Cottage Scheme. I think it was discontinued some years ago.


Here is an SF statement from 2005 concerning the scheme.

Statment by Colr. Joe Reilly, Meath Sinn Féin:

“In recent months I have represented a number of families in Meath regarding the purchase of their homes, which had been built under the Local Authority Rural Cottage Scheme.

“In order to qualify for this scheme, an applicant must provide and legally sign over the site on which the house is to be built to Meath County Council.

“Under the tenants purchase scheme, which allows for tenants to purchase their homes after one year from Meath County Council, the local authority must value the property at market value. The house can then be purchased by the tenant minus the normal financial deductions.

“In the case of the Rural Cottages Scheme Meath County Council insisted that in selling the house to the tenant they could not take into account the fact that the tenant had provided the site free of charge to the Council. Therefore the property had to be offered to the tenant at market value, including the value of the site.

“I challenged this assessment and requested a legal opinion on the local authority’s decision to include the market value of a site, that the tenant had provided free to the council, in the overall value of the property.

“The legal opinion confirmed that the Council position was incorrect. They now have to reduce the overall market value of the property by the market value of the site. In one case this has reduced the purchasing cost to the tenant by 80,000 EURO.

“The Rural Cottage Scheme is available in counties across the state so I would urge any person who has purchased a rural cottage under this scheme to check immediately with their local authority to see if the purchase cost of their home incorrectly included the cost of the site.”
 
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