I am looking for suggestions of what and where to buy.
It's not as bad as @Brendan Burgess makes out.
I think you have to decide though whether you want a pure investment, or somewhere eventually to live, or both.
If you want a pure investment:
- Get something with a high yield. Apartments outside Dublin have the highest rents relative to price.
- If you are buying an apartment buy something with a decent sinking fund in place.
- Absolutely use a letting agent. You will not be in a position to deal with tenant queries from abroad.
- You will pay very little if any tax if it is your sole income in Ireland. Not sure how tax treatment will work abroad.
- Capital gains are always possible, but house prices in 2019 aren't clearly undervalued the way they were in 2012.
- If the apartment has not been let recently then it will not initially be subject to rent controls.
I think you should be able to get an after-tax net yield of about 5%
@Brendan Burgess - .Ofcourse owning an investment property is a business. I have previously managed a property in Ireland from abroad without any issues, quite often in life and business positive things can happen such as finding a trustworthy good tenant. Apart from the rent cap what horrific regulations are you referring to? My idea would be to purchase an existing habitable house or apartment. As you are discouraging the investment in property have you any other suggestions for where to invest 180k other than deposit and bonds?
As you are discouraging the investment in property have you any other suggestions for where to invest 180k other than deposit and bonds?
@galway_blow_in Hopefully those types of incidents are in the minority and if you have some better suggestions I'm all ears. Thanks
@galway_blow_in Hopefully those types of incidents are in the minority and if you have some better suggestions I'm all ears. Thanks
I think what some of the other posters may be getting at is that your assessment of the levels of risk and reward may not be accurate here. The risk is higher than (I think) you're giving credit for, between problem tenants and possible decreases in value, while the reward may well be lower than you're expecting, by the time you pay somebody to manage the property for you, deal with vacant periods and maintenance, consider that property prices seem to be plateauing etc.@Jim2007 What are some of your alternative low risk asset investment suggestions? Yes I am looking for free advice as the site goes, askaboutmoney. Thanks!
I think what some of the other posters may be getting at is that your assessment of the levels of risk and reward may not be accurate here. The risk is higher than (I think) you're giving credit for, between problem tenants and possible decreases in value, while the reward may well be lower than you're expecting, by the time you pay somebody to manage the property for you, deal with vacant periods and maintenance, consider that property prices seem to be plateauing etc.
I'd also query whether €180k will buy a property in the kind of area you'd like to live if you ever did return to Ireland?
Have you considered investing that money in the stock market? It would likely get similar returns there, with little or no maintenance. The market may go down (keep in-mind Irish house prices dropped as much as the stockmarket in Ireland recently) but provided you don't sell at this time, it has always come back up. Then if you do decide to move back to Ireland in future you can easily sell the shares and buy a property that suits your lifestyle at that time in a location you are sure you want to live.
Some signs, possibly -In relation to the prices going down, its possible of course yes, I wouldn't like to be buying in a peak market but are there really any signs the market is slowing down, i.e prices coming down, not that I am aware of.
Holding onto your money in a safe haven is also a strategy, many observers don't get that, the do nothing is also a strategy, ask anybody that has the benefit of hindsight.
Yeah a lot of people in Ireland have a dim view on the stockmarket after eircom, Anglo Irish Bank etc. But I'd really encourage you to give it one more try. The fact you're on here asking the question about investing, and not about where to get the best deposit rate, puts you ahead of most people.I have dabbled in the stock market a little before but not with much success, eircom / vodafone, Irish bank shares, Rabo direct funds etc all went in the wrong direction never to give returns in my life time.
I think the trick is don't try to navigate it. Just buy an S&P500 (as you suggested yourself) ETF and if you want some geographical spread, a European index ETF and leave them, check the price once a month at most if you're curious.I find the thoughts of navigating the stock market too risky and daunting.
ETFs are extremely liquid, just like a regular share. The companies that manage these are generally very big stable companies, Blackrock for example has $150bn under management, so while it's possible they could go out of business the likelihood is very low. But there are lots of them out there, so if it gave you more comfort you could buy and S&P500 index ETF from 3/4/5 different providers to spread the risk, there's little downside to doing so other than a small bit more paperwork when calculating your tax.How liquid is your mutual fund though that tracks an index, what happens if the company selling the fund goes out of business?
You can buy these ETFs very easily, any stockbroker will be able to buy them for you. All you need to do is pick a broker, fill in a form and send some ID, a week later you'll be able to log in and do a bank transfer of some funds to your account, then search for your preferred S&P500 ETF and click Buy, choosing the amount you want, you're done. Yes there will be some tax admin required, but it's not complicated and would be required if you become a landlord as well. You could get an accountant to do it for you for a few hundred quid if you'd prefer.and even how does one buy such a low cost index tracked mutual fund? and then what are the tax implications? As messy as property can be I believe the stock market for those without expertise and even for those with expertise can be just as risky and complicated as a property investment.
Just a couple of data points for you. If you had invested in an S&P500 ETF 10 years ago you would have nailed the crash and lost ~40% in that first year, about as bad as it gets, but the market recovered and over those 10 years your return would have been 8% per annum. If you'd invested 20 years ago you'd have entered the market just before the dotcom crash and you'd pick up the 2008 crash as well, but the market recovered and you'd still have made about 8% per annum if you stayed in. 8% would be a tough enough return to make in the property market with more work required (saying this as a landlord myself). 8% is a 4-500% better return than you'll make in a deposit account and 2-300% more than you'd make in Irish government bonds (given they're tax free).Looking at all the comments so far I am thinking the best thing to do is leave the money on deposit or bonds earning next to nothing. I was hoping askaboutmoney would provide me with some better solutions....but thanks to everyone for their comments to date.
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