Can we have no more threads about public sector pay

[VOR]

What a mean minded post. Out of interest, do people in the private sector take a cut in the interests of their employer or in the interest of saving their job and because they have no other choice.

I don't see how that post was "mean-minded" but if it read like that I am sorry. I hope you can see that a job, pension and a 5% cut is far better than no job, no pension and a 4% cut. I am not belittling the cut the PS took, but I do believe it should be put in context.

The interests of the business and my personal interests of keeping a job are generally the same thing. If the business doesn't do well, I don't get paid ( has happened numerous times this year and for weeks at a time) or worse, we close and I'm out of a job.

 

[Shawady]

However, I don't believe there is any more blood in public sector pay especially at low and middle income earners. Still plenty to do on the reform side including over overall public sector numbers.

It would be a smart move by the government to state something to this effect. Something like "we have done as much as we need with cutting pay and are confident that future savings can be made through reform, numbers etc".
I think a lot of public servants, while unhappy with the cuts, would just get on with the job and not be interested in strike action.
We have to move forward.

 

[liaconn]

It would be a smart move by the government to state something to this effect. Something like "we have done as much as we need with cutting pay and are confident that future savings can be made through reform, numbers etc".
I think a lot of public servants, while unhappy with the cuts, would just get on with the job and not be interested in strike action.
We have to move forward.

Eh, you seriously think we'd believe the Government???

 

[Mpsox]

What a mean minded post. Out of interest, do people in the private sector take a cut in the interests of their employer or in the interest of saving their job and because they have no other choice.

Lots of reasons, in my own case, the pay cuts were voluntarily but most people here signed up for them. I can't comment on others but in my own case

• As a manager I did not feel it was appropriate for me to ask staff to take a cut unless I was prepared to do the same myself
• A strong message came out from above that we needed to cut costs to make ourselves cheaper and more competative when tendering for new business. As someone who spends 25% of his time on new business initiatives, I could clearly see the need to do this and it definately has made us more competative.
• As a manager, I have a budget, like often happens, I get a "stretch" on my budget and pay cuts were one way of making that stretch. On a corporate level, it was never stated that if we did not meet the savings, we resort to staff cuts, but the message was clear, that one way or another, the savings would be made.
• In terms of my own career, sometimes, you need to be seen to "take one for the team". No one said you'd be singled out if you didn't take a cut, but there certainly was a belief, at least at managerial level, that if you didn't, it would be remembered

Did we make staff cuts on top of pay cuts, yes but that was because business was down and we no longer needed the staff, would we have had to make more staff cuts if we hadn't got people to stand up and take pay cuts, most definately yes

 

[Shawady]

Eh, you seriously think we'd believe the Government???

Liaconn, I'm no fan of the government but they should lay their cards on the table regards future savings to the PS wage bill. If they are of the view that no more pay cuts should be required and stated this, it would remove a lot of uncertainty. I think it woul deter a lot of people from industrial action and put the ball back in the union's court regards reform.
I won't be voting Fianna Fail in the next election but they might be here for 2 more budgets and I don't want this to happen again next year.

 

[liaconn]

But why would we trust them? We called off a strike last week because they said there would be no pay cuts, but a cut in hours. Then the reneged. No one in here will believe anything they say and I cna't see the Unions calling off industrial action again just on the word of the Government.

 

[Caveat]

But why would we trust them? We called off a strike last week because they said there would be no pay cuts, but a cut in hours. Then the reneged. No one in here will believe anything they say and I cna't see the Unions calling off industrial action again just on the word of the Government.

And everyone else should believe the unions??

The strike was called off because it appeared that progress was being made for common agreement blah blah blah.

Who says the government reneged on anything? who says they promised anything?

Yes, the unions. No-one else.

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the government by any stretch but I'd take their word over the hypocritical chancers and woefully uninformed hotheads that many unions have shown themselves to be.

 

[z107]

It would be a smart move by the government to state something to this effect. Something like "we have done as much as we need with cutting pay and are confident that future savings can be made through reform, numbers etc".

The unfortunate position we're in means that the government probably will have to cut public sector pay again. This Budget only (at best) keeps us steady.

That €4billion will be gobbled up by the banks fairly sharpish.

 

[TarfHead]

That €4billion will be gobbled up by the banks fairly sharpish.

The €4bn has already been gobbled up by Government expenditure commitments. The money for the banks is coming from a 'different wallet' .

The cuts announced yesterday mean the Government will have to borrow less to finance current expenditure, but will still be borrowing an unsustainable amount, hence the need for another hard Budget next year and in further years.

 

[VOR]

I just had a very disheartening experience at lunch and need to get this off my chest. I went in to a shop I visit most days. There were two other customers in front of me. One works for the Citizens Info Bureau. The other is a public servant but she did not say where. They were discussing the budget when I arrived.

The girl from the C.I.B said that their phone is ringing all morning with people asking about the cuts to social welfare and health. I said that I was glad that, for once, I personally got a light “doing” in this budget compared to the last two.

The public servant said that it was a disgrace that people on “only” €30K a year were losing 5%. I retorted (as I said on this site) that the 4% for those with no job must hurt more surely. I explained that we all have to take some pain during this time and hopefully that will be the last of it for the public sector.

She landed an unbelievable line on me next claiming that “those on the dole” contribute nothing to this country and most of them “sit around all day watching TV”. She went on to say that it is the “poor souls” who are working in the PS that are bearing the brunt.

I looked at the other girl who has had calls streaming in today to her office from people who are worried about losing €8. We said nothing, bit our lips and left (after paying ). The shopkeeper looked stunned at the outburst.

I said nothing of my wife who has a PhD and desperate for a chance. Her company have moved their R&D process abroad and the best and brightest of our “4th level education system” got the bullet. That was 6 weeks ago and she has sent a letter to a different company every day since then. She has offered to work for free on a 6 months basis hoping beyond all hope that she will get once chance to prove her worth. We drove around industrial estates in Galway, Ennis, Shannon and Limerick writing down the names of companies to apply to. She waits today for a call from a company 100 miles away from our home that might offer her maternity cover. She prays they give her an interview. She also waits to hear from Bray and Ballina, Co. Mayo. She’ll travel to either for work and any salary from min wage up.

I never said to her that my wife agreed with the cut of €8 yesterday even as a once proud daughter with 8 years of college got ready to face her family this Christmas and explain how she had no prospects of a job …yet.

I didn’t tell the woman about my friend who has an MBA and PhD. He is also without a job. He is emigrating as soon as he can. His redundancy payment went to pay off his loan for his MBA.

I didn’t speak of the couple I know with two kids. He is out of work as his multi-nat “downsized”. She was in a bank that did the same.

I said nothing of my many colleagues who now work 3 day weeks and sign on for the other days.

I said nothing for the other 165,000 people who have lost their job in the last year and a bit.

I just said nothing. It was a mixture of shock, sadness and anger. But, I still said nothing. I would have wasted my time. She just didn’t get it. She just didn’t have it in her to show empathy or sympathy for those who had lost a job. After all, in her world they didn’t “contribute”. I wondered if she had forgotten that many were taxpayers once.

Many of you on this site may disagree with a great deal I say. That is your prerogative. However, I for one am glad that we can at least discuss it without resorting to such shameful opinions about over 400,000 adults in our society. I have a great respect for all opinions on this site ( even when I am disagreeing with Complainer ). Sure, I don’t agree with some of them but they are your opinions.

We have all lost during this downturn and will inevitably suffer financially from it for years to come. I am sure that we all have the good sense to acknowledge that.

 

[Purple]

VOR, that's the best post I have read on AAM in a long time.

 

[Caveat]

+1

 

[TarfHead]

She landed an unbelievable line on me next claiming that “those on the dole” contribute nothing to this country and most of them “sit around all day watching TV”. She went on to say that it is the “poor souls” who are working in the PS that are bearing the brunt.

I would give her the benefit of the doubt and factor in that emotions are high today for public sector workers. She may not express such a forthright statement tomorrow, or next week.

One would hope ..

 

[ney001]

VOR - sobering post, well done!

 

[liaconn]

I
She landed an unbelievable line on me next claiming that “those on the dole” contribute nothing to this country and most of them “sit around all day watching TV”. She went on to say that it is the “poor souls” who are working in the PS that are bearing the brunt.

I She just didn’t have it in her to show empathy or sympathy for those who had lost a job. After all, in her world they didn’t “contribute”. I wondered if she had forgotten that many were taxpayers once.

VOR

Are you saying that all Public Servants think like this and have no sympathy for those on the dole. I haven't heard one single (of the many upset and worried) persons in here say anything like that today. You're generalising. I have often heard the odd person make unfeelling remarks about those who have lost their job. I just think they're ignorant or arrogant, I don't think they're typical of private sector workers, of people in their twenties, or middle class people or whatever. For instance, a cousin of mine was complaining that, if they bring back third level fees they'd have to sell their second car. When her brother pointed out that some people couldnt' afford a first car she replied 'that's their own fault. If they got up off their a*ses and tried to find another job instead of sitting around getting benefits and moaning, blah blah'. Like you I was disgusted and couldn't believe what I was hearing but I didn't think 'typical private sector' I just thought 'what a bitch'.

 

[VOR]

Are you saying that all Public Servants think like this and have no sympathy for those on the dole.

Certainly not. I don't think for one second that she spoke for PS workers. I said that all contributors on AAM, meaning public and private sector alike, "can at least discuss it without resorting to such shameful opinions about over 400,000 adults in our society".

I was just shocked by the attitude of this one person. Please don't take it as a go at ALL PS workers. It was not meant like that.

I had earlier said that context and perspective should be given to the cuts. My post was a LOS moment after encountering a staggeringly dislikable person. I just hope that all who read my post apply some perspective to the cuts and realise that it is not always what you have lost but what you have kept that counts. And I hope for all our sakes that the cuts pay off for this country.

Hopefully, when the dust settles in years to come we will have a more robust, efficient, manageable public service and a more competitive, export driven private sector.

Otherwise, we will hand a far worse country to our children than the one we inherited. That will be to all our shame.

PS. I agreed with the cuts in social welfare also.

 

[thedaras]

I asked my kids today was there any reaction from their teachers or discussion about the budget in school today..

2 teachers made snide comments and one said that the sweets she gave out would have to stop to make up the difference in pay..

Now this is 3 different schools ,so much for the caring/concerned teacher who just wants to look after the pupils..

Im aware emotions are high today but having said that I never mentioned to my kids what I think of their teachers and the public service yet they seem contented enough to let the kids know..

 

[thedaras]

The net effect of the cut will be more competition for the few private sector jobs out there. From talking to PS workers I know there are a lot with one eye on the door.

That sums it up the PS for me!!

A person whom has a permanent pensionable well paid job,now looking to leave it and to go to an uncertain,having to pay for your pension,work all hours job...absolute poppycock..

This is the kind of statement that gets peoples back up when its clear that this will never happen!

However if it does well,welcome to my world lets see how you get on...

 

[smiley]

Im aware emotions are high today but having said that I never mentioned to my kids what I think of their teachers and the public service yet they seem contented enough to let the kids know..

This statement is absolute poppycock all right!

 

[Sconhome]

VOR - top of the class!! Excellent post, well written.