EU national moving to Ireland for retirement

I

irbx

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Hi all

Hoping to get pointers in right direction. My wife mother wants to move to Ireland on retirement. She will not have a full pension from France only around 800 per month. 62 years old

Somebody was saying since this is lower the non contribution pension. She should apply for it when she is 66 to see if she get a top up payment.

Citizens advise were not sure about it.
 
She would be entitled to apply when 66. Her French is income is just like any other income and will be assessed as means and most likely she would get a top-up.

The bigger issue she will face is passing the habitual residence test. This is based on:

  • Length and continuity of residence in Ireland
  • Length and purpose of any absence from Ireland
  • Nature and pattern of employment
  • Your main centre of interest
  • Your future intentions to live in Ireland as it appears from the evidence
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I went through this with a family member a few years ago and I got the impression that DSP were very strict. The criteria are deliberately unclear and a lot is left to their discretion. They will be more suspicious of a French person moving to live in Ireland than an Irish person moving home to Ireland after living in France too.

Say your MIL moves to Ireland but retains a bank account in France, spends three months a year there, maybe retains a property. All of this would count against her from the perspective of testing whether she is habitually resident in Ireland. On the other hand, having family here in Ireland, a bank account, employment, and in particular owning property, would convince DSP that she is habitually resident.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
She would be entitled to apply when 66. Her French is income is just like any other income and will be assessed as means and most likely she would get a top-up.

The bigger issue she will face is passing the habitual residence test. This is based on:


I went through this with a family member a few years ago and I got the impression that DSP were very strict. The criteria are deliberately unclear and a lot is left to their discretion. They will be more suspicious of a French person moving to live in Ireland than an Irish person moving home to Ireland after living in France too.

Say your MIL moves to Ireland but retains a bank account in France, spends three months a year there, maybe retains a property. All of this would count against her from the perspective of testing whether she is habitually resident in Ireland. On the other hand, having family here in Ireland, a bank account, employment, and in particular owning property, would convince DSP that she is habitually resident.
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Thanks very much. Either ways she will coming over in next couple of weeks and won't be applying for another 4 years. She will opening a bank account (Aldo she wants to keep French one cause of life insurance, health insurance and French pension need it ) but plans to do some courses/study here. She is going to stay in our granny flat with bill in her name so hopefully its enough.
 
@irbx I've no idea if that will be enough but it should all help to work in her favour, especially having been here for four years by then. Anything can make a difference. For example putting a French mobile number on the form would not help!
 
irbx said:
Hi all

Hoping to get pointers in right direction. My wife mother wants to move to Ireland on retirement. She will not have a full pension from France only around 800 per month. 62 years old

Somebody was saying since this is lower the non contribution pension. She should apply for it when she is 66 to see if she get a top up payment.

Citizens advise were not sure about it.
Click to expand...

The right of an EU citizen to retire to another EU state is dependent on them being able to demonstrate that they have sufficient funds not to be come a burden on the state. An application for a non contributor pension would clearly show she does not meet the requirements.

Furthermore, be aware that since her pension will be paid by the French government, her healthcare etc remains their responsibility and she is not entitled to access the Irish public healthcare services.

Read the EU directive, it places a lot of restrictions on free movement to ensure the retirees do not become a burden on the host state.
 
Jim2007 said:
The right of an EU citizen to retire to another EU state is dependent on them being able to demonstrate that they have sufficient funds not to be come a burden on the state.
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Have you ever heard of an EU pensioner being denied residence in Ireland despite having an independent income? I never have. In any case Ireland, unlike nearly all other EU member states, does not have a formal registration process for residents so she will be able to come and go as she pleases.

Jim2007 said:
Furthermore, be aware that since her pension will be paid by the French government, her healthcare etc remains their responsibility
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How is there a link between her pension and her healthcare entitlements? Anyone resident in Ireland is entitled to access the public system.
 
Shirazman said:
I think the point is that she may not be able to get a medical/GP card.
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Don't believe this is going to be an issue as with her French pension, she has a Card "Vitale" (French medical card ) and her own Private French Health insurance covers public/private hospitals in Ireland(for ex PAT's resident in another EU state).

Just with Covid, she realised that nothing holding her to France anymore as all sons and daughters are living abroad in UK, Ireland and Canada. (Ireland has been the only country still in the EU).
 
Shirazman said:
I think the point is that she may not be able to get a medical/GP card.
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She should be able to satisfy the ordinary residency criteria for a medical card (not the same as habitual residence for welfare purposes).

irbx said:
her own Private French Health insurance covers public/private hospitals in Ireland
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She'd want to check if she can still hold this policy if she's resident outside France though.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
She should be able to satisfy the ordinary residency criteria for a medical card (not the same as habitual residence for welfare purposes).


She'd want to check if she can still hold this policy if she's resident outside France though.
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Okay did not think she would possible get a medical card/GP Card (but I suppose the French are paying for this in the back end )

Current Health Insurance Plan will be moving to the ex-pat one. This covers their members to Live abroad in any EU state. Fairly common for the French to move to Portugal in retirement. But has to paided from a French account, double the cost ( Still cheaper than health insurance here do).

Thank you to everyone here some good pointers and will remember to come back here to post in 4 years how she got on.
 
For the Medical Card

Found this article which seems to point that at 60 or over she can apply now in Ireland for a non-means tested medical card (Just have to get E121 from French before she goes). It also works the other way around for Irish People retiring in the EU. Hopefully useful to someone.

EU pensioners’ medical card entitlements

www.inmo.ie
 
irbx said:
For the Medical Card

Found this article which seems to point that at 60 or over she can apply now in Ireland for a non-means tested medical card (Just have to get E121 from French before she goes). It also works the other way around for Irish People retiring in the EU. Hopefully useful to someone.

EU pensioners’ medical card entitlements

www.inmo.ie
Click to expand...


Did you notice the bolded bit?

"Under EU Regulation 1408/71, EU pensioners resident in Ireland who are in receipt of a social security pension from another EU/EEA state or Switzerland are entitled to a non-means tested medical card, provided they are not in receipt of an Irish social security pension, ....... "

So presumably she couldn't claim the Irish n-c State pension.
 
Shirazman said:
Did you notice the bolded bit?

"Under EU Regulation 1408/71, EU pensioners resident in Ireland who are in receipt of a social security pension from another EU/EEA state or Switzerland are entitled to a non-means tested medical card, provided they are not in receipt of an Irish social security pension, ....... "

So presumably she couldn't claim the Irish n-c State pension.
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I did but she is current 62 and retired in France so she cant apply for non-cont Irish Pension untill she 66 (or 67) like everyone else. But looks could get a medical card in the meantime for the next 4 years also helps to prove her centre of interest is now Ireland. which is the case since moving here for more than year.

I think an Irish social security pension is defined as one where you pay PRSI into it. Since she never worked in Ireland this would not apply to her but could be wrong.

Even if she does not get anything from Ireland. She be able to live in the granny flat with her French Pension.
Either ways my MIL is coming over to reunite the family which is a good thing in my point.
 
irbx said:
I think an Irish social security pension is defined as one where you pay PRSI into it.
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Unfortunately not, a social security pension is one paid by the state, either a contributory or non-contributory pension.

irbx said:
Either ways my MIL is coming over to reunite the family which is a good thing in my point.
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That's the main thing for all of you. Hope it goes well!
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
How is there a link between her pension and her healthcare entitlements? Anyone resident in Ireland is entitled to access the public system.
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And yet as an Irish citizen, if I were to return to live in Ireland I could not access the public health services according to the HSE. And they are correct, I have had investigated a couple of times now most recently 6 months ago. I’ve gone through all the documentation and agreements and it comes down to a very simple rule: for an EU/EEA/CH citizen the country paying the bulk of your pension is responsible for your healthcare.

And by the way, you don’t have a right to come and go as often or for as long as you like between member states. You have a right to go and work in an EU/EEA/CH and to make short visits to other member states. If challenged the onus is on you to prove you are in compliance not the other way around.

So it all works well until you need serious medical treatment or have a run in with the authorities. Then it could all unwind very quickly. No exactly how I want to spend my retirement.
 
Jim2007 said:
And by the way, you don’t have a right to come and go as often or for as long as you like between member states. You have a right to go and work in an EU/EEA/CH and to make short visits to other member states.
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That's not correct. As an EEA citizen you are entitled to live for as long as you like in any other EEA country provided you do not become a financial burden on the host country (without having worked there for a certain qualifying period) and are not deemed an acute risk to national security. You are also entitled to enter and leave as often as you like. European jurisprudence severely restricts states' ability to curtail this right. For example, even EEA citizens with serious criminal records cannot normally be barred.
 
Jim2007 said:
And yet as an Irish citizen, if I were to return to live in Ireland I could not access the public health services according to the HSE. And they are correct, I have had investigated a couple of times now most recently 6 months ago. I’ve gone through all the documentation and agreements and it comes down to a very simple rule: for an EU/EEA/CH citizen the country paying the bulk of your pension is responsible for your healthcare.

And by the way, you don’t have a right to come and go as often or for as long as you like between member states. You have a right to go and work in an EU/EEA/CH and to make short visits to other member states. If challenged the onus is on you to prove you are in compliance not the other way around.

So it all works well until you need serious medical treatment or have a run in with the authorities. Then it could all unwind very quickly. No exactly how I want to spend my retirement.
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That seems very odd. When I moved to Ireland with my wife who is an Irish citizen, she was immediately allowed to access public health services. Where did your info come from - as in where did you see it written down?
 
"Entitlement to health services is based primarily on residency and means, rather than on your payment of tax or pay-related social insurance (PRSI).
Any person, regardless of nationality, who is accepted by the Health Service Executive (HSE) as being ordinarily resident in Ireland has eligibility to health services. You are ordinarily resident if you have been living in Ireland for at least a year or you intend to live here for at least one year.

Depending on their circumstances, short-term visitors to Ireland may be entitled to health services that are free or subsidised."

Entitlement to health services

Describes the entitlement to public health services of people resident in Ireland.
www.citizensinformation.ie www.citizensinformation.ie
 
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