Is sick leave carried over?
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Brendan Burgess
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I had heard a civil servant saying to another "make sure you use up your sick leave before the end of the year as you can't carry it over" but I had assumed she was just saying that to annoy me.
Tell me it's not true?
Brendan
Tell me it's not true?
Brendan
I friend of mine who works in a Public Service job was given out to by his union Rep for not taking his sick leave. His response was "but I haven't been sick. Are you suggesting I should take it even though I'm not sick? Wouldn't that be like stealing from my employer?" He was met with disgusted silence.
1. Sick Leave in the Public/Civil Service runs over a rolling four year period. There are limits where one can reach Half Pay or Nil Rate of Pay within that 4 year period. In fact management can refuse to pay any sick leave if there are reasons to support this. Brendan's thoughts above are not true; but to be fair there are misconceptions especially on fora such as AAM.
2. "Make sure you use up your sick leave before the end of the year . . ." Another untruth. Sick Leave (as I already pointed out) is read back over four year rolling period. Four Year Rolling Period = Read back from today say 21st November 2018 to 21st November 2014. The Calendar Year is not a Rolling Year. Even in certain circumstances the Four Year Rolling Period can be extended. There are no Public/Civil Service grades exempt from the 4 year readback. The terms of the 4 Year Readback are enforced stringently. Not to do so would be a serious offence.
3. "It's your turn to take sick leave this week" - I worked for over 47 years in the Public Service and for most of these I acted as a trade union representative (elected yearly) and I never head anybody advising of somebody's "turn" to take sick leave.
4. Purple makes an interesting point i.e. a Union Rep advising somebody to take sick leave. This can happen not only by a Union Rep, but also from Management. If somebody turns up for work in a hospital and he/she appears to be sick. Depending on the illness the employee might not be allowed take up duty in case of transferring his/her sickness to patients or other members of staff. This makes complete sense. Why should a hospital worker be allowed to contaminate patients or other members of staff. It does not have to be a hospital either. If somebody is obviously carrying some kind of transferable illness, it might not be good practice to allow that person to possibly contaminate others. There is such a thing as Compulsory Sick Leave (again this is countable within the Rolling Four Year Rule). However, Mr Purple might not be referring to what I have just written.
5. Hospital Health Care workers who are attacked by patients (unusual, but not unknown) may have to take sick leave as a result of the assault. Three months of such sick leave would not be counted and would be at Full Pay irrespective of the Four Year Rule. Please Note:- Health Care workers must use much "discretion" before even defending themselves from some patients in certain situations. If recovery of such an assault is over two days, then the employee would be expected to resume work on the "third" day.
Most of the allegations regarding sick leave which I hear from many, I take with a grain of salt. Talk is cheap. Furthermore, all absences of more than 2 consecutive days must be certified by a Qualified Medical Practitioner (a doctor). Seven days sick leave (uncertified) are allowed over a two rolling year period. Doctor's don't hand out too many false Sick Certificates and if they do, they leave themselves open to investigation. Sick Leave Regulations and consequences are enforced within the Civil and Public Service. Usually, sick certificates from doctors may not exceed seven days at a time. Exceptions to this would be serious illnesses where monthly medical certificates are acceptable.
The foregoing is just a general indication of the everyday processing of sick leave within the Civil/Public Service. There are exceptions and if I caused any confusion, please forgive. Please feel free to question anything I wrote.
But, to get back to the original question:- You accept promotion or a transfer to another area or by open competition, you do carry your sick leave history with you. You don't start afresh.
Lep.
2. "Make sure you use up your sick leave before the end of the year . . ." Another untruth. Sick Leave (as I already pointed out) is read back over four year rolling period. Four Year Rolling Period = Read back from today say 21st November 2018 to 21st November 2014. The Calendar Year is not a Rolling Year. Even in certain circumstances the Four Year Rolling Period can be extended. There are no Public/Civil Service grades exempt from the 4 year readback. The terms of the 4 Year Readback are enforced stringently. Not to do so would be a serious offence.
3. "It's your turn to take sick leave this week" - I worked for over 47 years in the Public Service and for most of these I acted as a trade union representative (elected yearly) and I never head anybody advising of somebody's "turn" to take sick leave.
4. Purple makes an interesting point i.e. a Union Rep advising somebody to take sick leave. This can happen not only by a Union Rep, but also from Management. If somebody turns up for work in a hospital and he/she appears to be sick. Depending on the illness the employee might not be allowed take up duty in case of transferring his/her sickness to patients or other members of staff. This makes complete sense. Why should a hospital worker be allowed to contaminate patients or other members of staff. It does not have to be a hospital either. If somebody is obviously carrying some kind of transferable illness, it might not be good practice to allow that person to possibly contaminate others. There is such a thing as Compulsory Sick Leave (again this is countable within the Rolling Four Year Rule). However, Mr Purple might not be referring to what I have just written.
5. Hospital Health Care workers who are attacked by patients (unusual, but not unknown) may have to take sick leave as a result of the assault. Three months of such sick leave would not be counted and would be at Full Pay irrespective of the Four Year Rule. Please Note:- Health Care workers must use much "discretion" before even defending themselves from some patients in certain situations. If recovery of such an assault is over two days, then the employee would be expected to resume work on the "third" day.
Most of the allegations regarding sick leave which I hear from many, I take with a grain of salt. Talk is cheap. Furthermore, all absences of more than 2 consecutive days must be certified by a Qualified Medical Practitioner (a doctor). Seven days sick leave (uncertified) are allowed over a two rolling year period. Doctor's don't hand out too many false Sick Certificates and if they do, they leave themselves open to investigation. Sick Leave Regulations and consequences are enforced within the Civil and Public Service. Usually, sick certificates from doctors may not exceed seven days at a time. Exceptions to this would be serious illnesses where monthly medical certificates are acceptable.
The foregoing is just a general indication of the everyday processing of sick leave within the Civil/Public Service. There are exceptions and if I caused any confusion, please forgive. Please feel free to question anything I wrote.
But, to get back to the original question:- You accept promotion or a transfer to another area or by open competition, you do carry your sick leave history with you. You don't start afresh.
Lep.
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Blackrock1
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You are naive if you think that doctors don't give out sick notes willy nilly, if someone goes to the doctor they will be given a sick note I have yet to hear of someone being denied one.
Our company does not penalise anyone from taking up to 6 days uncertified sick leave in a year. And I did see one person work her way diligently through the 6 days as “long weekends” etc as she felt these 6 days could be added to her annual leave entitlement. She was pretty vocal about it but if other people do this on the quiet I have no idea.
I cannot see many people taking much notice of someone who was generally healthy being “unwell” enough to take an odd day here or there, no one is going to question them too deeply. Feeling “under the weather” 6 times a year is what people might do.
This will not be enough to trigger any red flags I would think.
I cannot see many people taking much notice of someone who was generally healthy being “unwell” enough to take an odd day here or there, no one is going to question them too deeply. Feeling “under the weather” 6 times a year is what people might do.
This will not be enough to trigger any red flags I would think.
I have come across medical doctors refusing to give sick certificates for some Public/Civil Service employees for specific reasons e.g alcohol/drugs abuse or where there was no reason to issue a medical certificate. I accept doctors are in the front line for litigation and many would issue medical certificates just to avoid such. Of course, the odd doctor might issue the occasional medical certificate for the €60.00 fee on offer.
I am not saying that people do not abuse the sick leave regulations. Of course, there is abuse, but nothing like the scale that gets highlighted occasionally.
I've just realised that in my post above, I have supplied a condensed version of the Sick Leave Regulations in the Public/Civil Service and given some insight to any employee of his/her entitlements which could be taken for or against sick leave.
Learner2015
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Sick leave in the civil service is also linked to promotion. For instance if you have more than 7 uncertified sick days in a 2 year rolling period prior to your appointment in a new role you would deemed ineligible for the promotion.
It is incredibly easy to get a sick note from a doctor for those inclined to do so even if they are not sick. Even with some health plans you can do video calls with doctors so you dont even physically have to go to a doctors premises anymore and the doctor will email you a sick note.
In defence of the doctors, they can only go on what the patient is telling them so they're not always to blame. Back in the day (80s), there were two doctors in Rathmines who the civil service refused to accept certificates from. I think that probably says it all of that era. Mind you, who'd be a civil servant in them days. On pittance moneywise and looking at others who are earning twice as much with cash in hand jobs while collecting the Maggie Thatcher
.This question is not credible regardless if you are private or public sector. Even less sense if asking about a higher grades. 1st time poster... I think not.
And not know the rules around sick leave? Very unlikely. Considering the recent changes and the attention on it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/civil-servants-seek-reversal-of-curbs-on-sick-leave-arrangements-1.3056874?mode=amp
Not to mention all the Union activity that goes on.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/civil-servants-seek-reversal-of-curbs-on-sick-leave-arrangements-1.3056874?mode=amp
Not to mention all the Union activity that goes on.
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Since mentioned by AlbacoreA union activity goes on concerning sick leave. I know when I was an unpaid union rep. many of my representations would be concerning sick leave. Amazing how little management appears to know regarding sick leave regulations. Also, amazing how many junior managers jump to conclusions regarding sick leave rules shoving their own interpretation on what is written in black and white. That's why we have trades unions; somebody must cast a definitive eye on regulations and management are often found short.
I've never experienced that. Most places I've worked private and public keep a running total on your leave.
They issue a letter with a summary if it looks like you are going to breach any rules, be a 2 yr or 4 yr rolling total. How else would they track it.
If they didn't get it right the union would be at their door immediately.
If you have a union. At any of the recent changes you would have had a briefing, and a vote. Even if your vote locally was ignored nationally. You'd still be very aware of it.
If you were going through the application process for Public/Civil service jobs, its very laborious. Usually all the details, terms and conditions, are discussed to death in the run up to it, be everyone.
They issue a letter with a summary if it looks like you are going to breach any rules, be a 2 yr or 4 yr rolling total. How else would they track it.
If they didn't get it right the union would be at their door immediately.
If you have a union. At any of the recent changes you would have had a briefing, and a vote. Even if your vote locally was ignored nationally. You'd still be very aware of it.
If you were going through the application process for Public/Civil service jobs, its very laborious. Usually all the details, terms and conditions, are discussed to death in the run up to it, be everyone.
It's clear the OP didn't actually mean can they carry over unused sick leave but rather does their sick leave record carry over to their new position, or do they start from scratch in terms of a new 2 year rolling window etc. The sick leave entitlements in the public sector are now far from generous - 7 days in a 2 year period uncertified is actually poor compared to a lot of private sector companies.
It is very possible that you might take 2 days with a very heavy cold on 3 separate occasions over a full 2 years and then you are almost at the limit.
It is very possible that you might take 2 days with a very heavy cold on 3 separate occasions over a full 2 years and then you are almost at the limit.
Clear? Maybe someone could explain it to me then.
The phrase "carry over" make no sense when used with sick leave.
Similarly "start from scratch" makes no sense either. Otherwise it wouldn't be a rolling window.
Can you zero your sick leave counter would be the same thing again.
Maybe it does exist. I've never heard of it, public or private.
The only think I've heard of in the private sector is where higher grades get sick leave and lower ones don't.