I was recently in yet another court appearance with Tanager who where looking for a possession order. I was unemployed however have now paid 30 consecutive full monthly payments and a couple of grand of the arrears. I clearly demonstrated to the judge that we where making an effort to service the mortgage and I further showed That tanager where not willing to work with me...the long and short of it was my argument of Bosi not been a legal entity at the time of property transfer from bos PLC to bosi was upheld and the judge struck the case out as tanager not on folio/land register....if you ask for arrears to be capitalised its my understanding that you are then entering a formal contract with tanager...keep paying what you can.Tanager won't get a possession order.Good luck
Judge strikes out Tanager case as their name is not on the Property Regiter
- Thread starter Rambo1
- Start date
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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- 52,130
Hi Rambo
Which court was this? Dublin?
When were proceedings issued?
How many times were you in the Registrar's Court?
Brendan
Which court was this? Dublin?
When were proceedings issued?
How many times were you in the Registrar's Court?
Brendan
The Circuit Court Dublin
Proceedings originally issued by BOSI pre 2013 then recommenced by Tanager 2014/205
Case struck out 2017
3 Times in registrars then a number of occasions with Judge.
I am paying my full monthly payment now. Tanager unwilling to do a deal unless its on their terms. No contract with them , received no monies from them , never agreed any terms with them, not on folio no clear title..
The only time they rang me in 12 months was a few days after the case was struck out was to see if I was going to pay that months amount!
The judge advised that any further communication with Tanager should be in writing -- this was for my own protection.
Proceedings originally issued by BOSI pre 2013 then recommenced by Tanager 2014/205
Case struck out 2017
3 Times in registrars then a number of occasions with Judge.
I am paying my full monthly payment now. Tanager unwilling to do a deal unless its on their terms. No contract with them , received no monies from them , never agreed any terms with them, not on folio no clear title..
The only time they rang me in 12 months was a few days after the case was struck out was to see if I was going to pay that months amount!
The judge advised that any further communication with Tanager should be in writing -- this was for my own protection.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,130
Hi Rambo
Thanks for that.
Why was it a number of times with the Judge?
What is the amount outstanding on the mortgage and what are the arrears?
Brendan
Thanks for that.
Why was it a number of times with the Judge?
What is the amount outstanding on the mortgage and what are the arrears?
Brendan
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,130
Just read your original post again.
Would your case have been thrown out anyway - whether you were making repayments or not?
I agree with your strategy. Pay what you can. Engage with the lender. Show that they are not engaging with you.
And if they push for an order, use the legal arguments as well.
I wouldn't rely on the legal arguments alone if I could pay.
Brendan
Would your case have been thrown out anyway - whether you were making repayments or not?
I agree with your strategy. Pay what you can. Engage with the lender. Show that they are not engaging with you.
And if they push for an order, use the legal arguments as well.
I wouldn't rely on the legal arguments alone if I could pay.
Brendan
Great news for you Rambo. So what happens next? Is your lender still going to be Tanager? they will have to deal with you now as they no longer can get a repossession. I'm on a similar position as you, making full payments and arrears for over 28 months. They are refusing to recapitalise my arrears and are seeking a recovery date in court. Hoping for a similar outcome as yours. Well done.
I asked for an adjournment so as to try to do a deal, while at the same time gaining more time to demonstrate to the court my ability to pay the mortgage but also to show my bona fide..despite Tanager continually asking the judge to grant a possession order which where always declined. And .this led to a number of further adjournments as I was continually paying the mortgage while making a proposal. And I believe the judge could see that I was making every effort to come to an agreement with Tanager and the judge stated enough was enough. Then after Tanager putting their case forward the judge struck it out as no clear title.
So I will continue to pay the full monthly payment...while holding onto a couple of legal ( grenades) points of law if they decide to reserve me.
Re would the case have been struck out anyway? Leads to other questions?
Tanager solicitors knew they where asking for a possession order while knowing other requests in other Tanager Cases with the same legal argument where also thrown out...they knew they couldn't get the order but still persisted with the proceedings....however its up to the debtor to question the legality of the Bosi entity at the time of transfer and that's the point I raised.
Vicvol
Just keep paying your mortgage....
Re the arrears ( I am not advising) but it is my understanding that if you come to any new agreement you are technically entering a knew contract with Tanager...and technically you don't have a contract with them.
Live your life...it's highly unlikely that they would get a possession order as you are engaging...
If they reserve you , meet it full on...you are now in a strong position as your are fully servicing the mortgage...
So I will continue to pay the full monthly payment...while holding onto a couple of legal ( grenades) points of law if they decide to reserve me.
Re would the case have been struck out anyway? Leads to other questions?
Tanager solicitors knew they where asking for a possession order while knowing other requests in other Tanager Cases with the same legal argument where also thrown out...they knew they couldn't get the order but still persisted with the proceedings....however its up to the debtor to question the legality of the Bosi entity at the time of transfer and that's the point I raised.
Vicvol
Just keep paying your mortgage....
Re the arrears ( I am not advising) but it is my understanding that if you come to any new agreement you are technically entering a knew contract with Tanager...and technically you don't have a contract with them.
Live your life...it's highly unlikely that they would get a possession order as you are engaging...
If they reserve you , meet it full on...you are now in a strong position as your are fully servicing the mortgage...
Thank you Rambo. It seems that Tanager is unlikely to offer me any deal but my pip is putting recapitalization of the arrears in order to show that I am doing everything I can. They have refused any options I have put forward. Still, it seems that the technicality along with you making full payments really showed how strong a position you were in. Now, is Tanager appealing to the high court this week in order to close the transfer technicality issue? Thanks for your input Rambo.
Why are they looking for repossesion when everyone knows they seem to have a problem with the transfer?
Why do they not want to do deals, knowing they are in a weak position ?
If you try to make extra payments to start paying the arrears are you saying then you are going into a new contract?
Sorry for all the question I'm waiting to be serve by them but have heard nothing from them yet.
Why do they not want to do deals, knowing they are in a weak position ?
If you try to make extra payments to start paying the arrears are you saying then you are going into a new contract?
Sorry for all the question I'm waiting to be serve by them but have heard nothing from them yet.
1) I don't know why ? perhaps they think they can hoodwink the judge ? maybe they are trying to test the law ? maybe the solicitors are using the hearings to train up their junior barristers ? They clearly do have an on going issue with the transfer...
2) because they are clearly out to maximise the asset value of the original mortgaged property , they have no morals its just down to €€€€€ and as the courts in some cases as outlined by the master of the courts are still flouting EU law --TANAGER seem to think they can too and hope that a debtor cannot put his or her case to the judge or even turn up to the hearing....and hope the judge will grant the order
3) I am not advising anyone re arrears , contracts etc. what I will say from my very first hearing I stated to the court that I never had a contract with TANAGER , never agreed terms nor did I receive any monies from then nor did I sign a contract with them....however it is my understanding that if you agree a new amount and sign a new agreement you are technically entering and agreeing to new terms of a contract which could be binding ? I further stated to thre court when TANAGER bought whatever they claim to have bought from BOS ... the original mortgage was discharged by them in FULL ,, they purchased for X aprox 60%-80% discount but they they created a new contract , a new account number with all the same terms and conditions which was not agreed by or signed by me ! I have suggested a deal but not at the full value but a starting point is from what they paid! try to reverse the rolls and be on the front foot, as everything is open for negotiation?
4) re waiting to be served , get all your paperwork in order evidence of all your monthly mortgage payments paid if any. Put your story together for the judge , record everything in writing , any phone calls note them, back up any calls you make in email format and send it to tanager so you have a paper record.. I would also request a full copy of the entire legal paperwork from TANAGER solicitors when and if you ever receive a civil bill for possession....there maybe an error or two in their paperwork?
5) Engage but don't bow down to them, don't be disrepectful or arrogant, you need to delay the case , go to court always turn up -- keep asking for adjournments...so you can demonstrate to the court that you can pay the mortgage or a good part of it. you have to show the court your ability , and show good bona fide to the judge.
6) By the way, where you or any TANAGER customer previously overcharged by BOS ?
2) because they are clearly out to maximise the asset value of the original mortgaged property , they have no morals its just down to €€€€€ and as the courts in some cases as outlined by the master of the courts are still flouting EU law --TANAGER seem to think they can too and hope that a debtor cannot put his or her case to the judge or even turn up to the hearing....and hope the judge will grant the order
3) I am not advising anyone re arrears , contracts etc. what I will say from my very first hearing I stated to the court that I never had a contract with TANAGER , never agreed terms nor did I receive any monies from then nor did I sign a contract with them....however it is my understanding that if you agree a new amount and sign a new agreement you are technically entering and agreeing to new terms of a contract which could be binding ? I further stated to thre court when TANAGER bought whatever they claim to have bought from BOS ... the original mortgage was discharged by them in FULL ,, they purchased for X aprox 60%-80% discount but they they created a new contract , a new account number with all the same terms and conditions which was not agreed by or signed by me ! I have suggested a deal but not at the full value but a starting point is from what they paid! try to reverse the rolls and be on the front foot, as everything is open for negotiation?
4) re waiting to be served , get all your paperwork in order evidence of all your monthly mortgage payments paid if any. Put your story together for the judge , record everything in writing , any phone calls note them, back up any calls you make in email format and send it to tanager so you have a paper record.. I would also request a full copy of the entire legal paperwork from TANAGER solicitors when and if you ever receive a civil bill for possession....there maybe an error or two in their paperwork?
5) Engage but don't bow down to them, don't be disrepectful or arrogant, you need to delay the case , go to court always turn up -- keep asking for adjournments...so you can demonstrate to the court that you can pay the mortgage or a good part of it. you have to show the court your ability , and show good bona fide to the judge.
6) By the way, where you or any TANAGER customer previously overcharged by BOS ?
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Thank you for your response.
Well done you.
I have requested oringinal loan offer and statements and still no reply. Nearly 4 months now.
I'm on a tracker rate and they sent a letter out saying the rate decrease and yet my repayment went up by €30.
I have sent in letters in to meet them and no reply.
Their solicitor is just sending letters to me and my solicitor with threats.
Well done you.
I have requested oringinal loan offer and statements and still no reply. Nearly 4 months now.
I'm on a tracker rate and they sent a letter out saying the rate decrease and yet my repayment went up by €30.
I have sent in letters in to meet them and no reply.
Their solicitor is just sending letters to me and my solicitor with threats.
1) Get the name of your tanager account manager -- address everything to him/her / make them personally responsible for your non receipt of requested documentation.
2) Do you have signed copies of the letters you sent 4 months ago ?
3) Send another request this week after you get your account managers name -- take control -- reverse the roles
4) When you get your original documentation it would be worth getting your account/statements forensically audited...BOS where fined for blatantly over charging customers, me included and more than likely yourself?
5) Send in another written request by registered post for a face to face meeting.
Once you get all the requested documents you can then prepare properly for s future legal case while still paying your mortgage. Which will demonstrate your bona fide to the court if it comes to that?
2) Do you have signed copies of the letters you sent 4 months ago ?
3) Send another request this week after you get your account managers name -- take control -- reverse the roles
4) When you get your original documentation it would be worth getting your account/statements forensically audited...BOS where fined for blatantly over charging customers, me included and more than likely yourself?
5) Send in another written request by registered post for a face to face meeting.
Once you get all the requested documents you can then prepare properly for s future legal case while still paying your mortgage. Which will demonstrate your bona fide to the court if it comes to that?
Browner , Your are in mortgage distress! It's not a crime remember that !
in Regards to the other parties solicitor / Barrister -- They have a duty of care to abide by ,and also to their client and to the COURT.... however looking at it from your/our side...they knowingly have brought you , myself and a large amount of other people to the possession courts while the clearly knew there was and is an underlying problem with the transfer (and the paperwork they have provided all parties ) from BOSI/BOS/BOS etc --- DUTY OF CARE -- seems to be a LACK of it from them on this point alone!
Live your life !
in Regards to the other parties solicitor / Barrister -- They have a duty of care to abide by ,and also to their client and to the COURT.... however looking at it from your/our side...they knowingly have brought you , myself and a large amount of other people to the possession courts while the clearly knew there was and is an underlying problem with the transfer (and the paperwork they have provided all parties ) from BOSI/BOS/BOS etc --- DUTY OF CARE -- seems to be a LACK of it from them on this point alone!
Live your life !
HostBidder
Registered User
- Messages
- 61
Well done and thanks for sharing that Rambo1.
Serious question, why are you paying them anything?
Serious question, why are you paying them anything?
Hi, Hostbidder,
I am paying the full monthly amount because I expect Tanager to reserve me with new legal proceedings somewhere?
So , when the time comes I will have once again demonstrated to any judge/court my ability to pay and further show the court that Tanager will have turned down my settlement offer!...
Also I am preparing my legal paperwork for when the day arrives...as there are a few potential legal points areas that may strengthen my case further.
I am paying the full monthly amount because I expect Tanager to reserve me with new legal proceedings somewhere?
So , when the time comes I will have once again demonstrated to any judge/court my ability to pay and further show the court that Tanager will have turned down my settlement offer!...
Also I am preparing my legal paperwork for when the day arrives...as there are a few potential legal points areas that may strengthen my case further.