Why Such A Vast Chasm Between UK & Irish Prices For TVs (& Other Stuff)?

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Phaedrus

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Hi,

Please bear with this - it's not a rant. I actually would like to know what the real honest answer is. The dealers I'm mentioning are examples - I'm not singling them out as bad guys.

In fact my dad, who is a professional wedding photographer & videographer, swears that Alliance Electric are easily one of the best shops he's dealt with in his many years as an electronics professional.

Panasonic TH-50PZ80 50" 1080p HD plasma TV from 1staudiovisual.co.uk: £1145 + £130 shipping to ROI = £1275 = €1600 (today).

[broken link removed]


Panasonic TH-50PY80 50" 1080p HD plasma TV from panasonicshop.ie: €2200.

http://panasonicshop.ie/product.php?PID=1&ID=1


Panasonic TH-50PY80 50" 1080p HD plasma TV from allianceelectric.ie: €2500.

[broken link removed]


The TH-50PY80 is apparently identical to the TH-50PZ80 in every respect except the tuner.

The PY model has a tuner that recieves only Ireland's soon-to-be-defunct analog terrestrial broadcasts.

The PZ model has a tuner that receives only the UK's digital terrestrial broadcasts ("Freeview").

It seems that the 4 Irish channels are broadcast in Dublin on analog UHF, and the tuner in the UK TH-50PZ80 is able to receive them. I haven't connect to my aerial yet, so can't personally confirm this, but am reliably informed that this is the case.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58867697&postcount=4


Neither PY nor PZ model has a tuner that will receive Ireland's looming digital terrestrial broadcasts ("DTT") - a newer Ireland-specific model (with a tuner for the new DTT broadcasts) may in the future come onto the market - I wonder what price that'll be?

I think it's fair to say that anyone in the market for a 50" 1080p HD plasma TV will have little or no interest in analog terrestrial broadcasts - these TVs will almost definitely be paired with some sort of external digital tuner or receiver: Sky+ or Sky HD, Freesat or free satellite (with free HD content).

These are not TVs that will be bunged in the kitchen with rabbit's ears on top for watching Fair City while making a sandwich.

So in terms of their suitability for the Irish DTT-era market, both the TH-50PZ80 and TH-50PY80 are effectively the same TV - the tuner in each will be equally useless once analog terrestrial broadcasting is completely replaced by DTT (within two years, IIUC).

Another brief example is the Panasonic DMR-EX88 400GB HDD DVD recorder.

It's in exactly the same boat as the TV above in terms of its tuner.

That actually makes it a far less attractive product than it is in the UK. In the UK, the exact same machine (no difference at all - the same batch from the factory can be split for shipment to UK or Ireland), can be connected to the aerial and it's the TV tuner and PVR - pause-RW-FF live TV, series record, fancy EPG, etc..

There's no DVD recorder available from the UK or domestically in Ireland that has the ability to perform as a DTT tuner and PVR in Ireland (they do exist for analog broadcast, AFAIK, but as I said, and as is becoming common knowledge, DTT will be replacing analog broadcasts soon, rendering these units obsolete in terms of their tuners), yet those models that are on sale here cost more than they do in the UK.

The Panasonic DMR-EX88 costs £450 (€565), including shipping, from 1staudiovisual.co.uk.

It costs €700 from both allianceelectric.ie and panasonicshop.ie, but has less of the functionality here than it has in the UK... for €135 more.

So to my point at last...

Why does a TV supposedly for the Irish market (that Irish retailers know is effectively the same, with the same tuner limitations, as the UK model), cost between €600 and €900 more here than if bought from the UK?

Why does a DVD recorder with less functionality here cost €135 more if bought over here than if bought from the UK?

Why?


Mark
 
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I apologise if my post is out of place, but I did searches for "uk prices", "england prices", "uk price difference", "uk - irish price difference", "uk electronics prices", "uk tv prices" and a few others, and found nothing to answer the question.

I'd be grateful for any links that might yield me an answer, though I'm sure they'll be what I suspect - unregulated and unrestricted profiteering.

Thanks,

Mark
 
Phaedrus said:
I apologise if my post is out of place, but I did searches for "uk prices", "england prices", "uk price difference", "uk - irish price difference", "uk electronics prices", "uk tv prices" and a few others, and found nothing to answer the question.

I'd be grateful for any links that might yield me an answer, though I'm sure they'll be what I suspect - unregulated and unrestricted profiteering.

Thanks,

Mark
Click to expand...

If you'd searched "rip-off Ireland" you might have found a few posts!

Since I'm posting this anyway, my own thoughts are:
a)Stuff (mostly) has to get here from the UK, and it doesn't travel for free.
b) People or businesses selling goods will charge what the market is willing to pay.
c) to some extent, different VAT rules make a difference
d) shops here might have higher overheads than some parts of the UK

Not a complete answer I'm sure, but it's enough for me to sleep at night.;)
 
Jock04 said:
b) People or businesses selling goods will charge what the market is willing to pay.
Click to expand...

I think that's the biggest one. That and profiteering / greed.

Pricing seems to be based on "what will these mugs pay?", rather than "what price covers my overheads, the cost of the goods to me, and gives me a reasonable profit?"

Call me naiive, but I reckon that's bad.

I'm sure overheads are higher here than in the UK, but to the tune of up to €900 per TV? I don't believe that.


Mark
 
Rip Off Ireland does play a very big part in my opinion.

You often hear of people making trips to NI as it still pays them when maybe €100 of petrol is taken into account.
 
ubiquitous said:
Why isn't this in Letting off Steam?

There is a current thread on this subject http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=91237
Click to expand...

I posted it in this forum because I'm trying to get an answer about why TVs are dearer in Ireland than in the UK. I'm not letting off steam - I'm seeking an answer.

With respect, the thread you've linked to is hardly "on this subject". The subjects of that thread seem to start with a TV, but they meander off onto groceries, beverages, phone credit, politics, cinema, concert tickets, wedding dresses, sarcasm, faulty thread links, tiles, accountancy costs in UK & IRL . . .

I quote my OP:

"Why does a TV supposedly for the Irish market (that Irish retailers know is effectively the same, with the same tuner limitations, as the UK model), cost between €600 and €900 more here than if bought from the UK?"

That's a question - not a line of rhetoric. I actually genuinely want to know what the €600 - €900 extra over the UK price is buying me - either that or where's it going?

It's a specific question about a specific type of product. I'm not interested in pointless venting and ranting - what does that gain me?

So, does my €900 pay for the TV's transport from the UK to here?

Does it pay for the higher staff costs, insurance costs, rent costs for the shop I'm buying it from?

Is it supposed to buy me the qualified expertise of the salesman? :rolleyes:

Does it buy me the "luxury" (compared with buying online from the UK) of actually viewing and comparing this TV with a competitor? That's of limited value anyway, as all TVs are set-up to appear a certain way in the shop (if they're even set up at all).

I'd rather trust the reviews of reputed magazines & sites, and the advice and opinions of members of dedicated forums. And these all come free.

Or does my €900 line the pockets of the proprietors more deeply than the pockets of the proprietors of the UK online sellers?

€900 is a BIG difference. It's not like an onion costing 2c more in Lidl than in Supervalu. This is a 36% difference over the UK price.

This stuff gets people ranting for sure, but ranting usually achieves little.

I'm not letting off steam - I'm asking questions.

What do I get for my €900 that I don't get from the UK online seller?


Mark
 
There are lots of reasons and Jock04 has given valid answers. Theres also higher staff costs/overheads to consider.

I recently bought a book form amazon.com for $29.99 + expedited international shipping which came to a total of €35

The same book in the uk is £29.99 which is at least €40 and thats before any shipping added.

Now the book was not available yet in the UK despite the main author residing in the UK.

We know that this cannot be based on cost because this is the same for all books on amazon. If they can get away with it they will.

Basically ,you are paying for convenience.
In general the smaller markets pay higher prices as there is not the same economy of scale.
 
Phaedrus said:
What do I get for my €900 that I don't get from the UK online seller?
Click to expand...

Who knows ? Seriously.


Suppose you go ahead and buy your TV from the Irish retailer. Do you believe that he is making a profit of €900 over and above that which the UK retailer wouild get for selling the 'same' TV ? I doubt that it is that simple.
  • the TVs aren't made in Ireland, so some additional transport costs are involved
  • the Irish retailer has premises to rent, showroom to fit out & light, heat & insure, employees to pay & administer (e.g. tax returns, social insurance). The online retailer could be operating out of a bedroom ;)
Why don't you ask the retailer, e.g. why is this TV €900 more than supercheapTV.co.uk are charging ?
 
I think this is a good question and appropriately placed here.

The main answer relates to what consumers are willing to pay for any given good (or service). Its basic economics. IF consumers are unwilling to pay the price then the price has to fall. If sales are rising the price gets increased, if this has no detrimental effect on sales the price will rise again and again over periods of time, leading to price differentials in different markets.

Its similar to buying own brand goods. For example Tesco can sell identical tins of beans with different labels at different prices. Its the way the market works

In some ways comments such as "Why isn't this in Letting off Steam?" is one of the reasons why these differentials exist. It is felt by many that fundamental questions such as these are only put forward by peopling wanting to have a rant. Hence the reason rip off Ireland has done so well.
 
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ubiquitous said:
Why isn't this in Letting off Steam?

There is a current thread on this subject http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=91237
Click to expand...


In fairness, the OP has 10 posts & isn't permitted to post in LOS.
It's for the Mods to decide whether it should be moved, perhaps they wish his/her enquiry to have an airing, rather than move it to an area where the OP can't participate. Or maybe they've just been busy.
Either way, posting simply to be pedantic about sub-menus isn't helping the OP get an answer, and is hardly likely to encourage the OP & others like him/her to use AAM again. We were all newbies once!
 
The profiteering/"people tolerate higher prices here" argument is compelling, but how then are Harvey Norman managing to make heavy trading losses where while trading profitably elsewhere? There may be a "chicken and egg" explanation (ie their costs are too high here so people aren't buying stuff from them) but they seem quite able to trade successfully at lower prices in other countries?

http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2008/aug/31/harvey-normans-irish-shops-lose-almost-75m/

Harvey Norman's Irish shops lose almost €7.5m

Australian electrical goods giant Harvey Norman has felt the brunt of the changed retail climate in Ireland, suffering a €7.46m net loss to its Irish business in the past six m*onths, with the company citing "difficult conditions" in the Irish economy.

"If that was happening to us in the rest of the world, we'd really get knocked around," the company said:

...

Internationally, net profit for the first half of 2008 was up by 13.4% on 2007 to €172.63m. The 50-year-old company is the biggest electrical and furniture retailer in Australia and has outlets in New Zealand, Asia and Europe. There are 13 shops in the Republic.
Click to expand...
 
It's interesting that Harvey has come up.

To put my interest in this in context, I'm being made redundant in the new year, but am confident I'll secure new employment before the big day.

So I recently started looking at finally sorting myself out with decent AV gear. I've been to most of the typical Irish dealers - Peats, Dixons / Currys, DID and Harvey Norman. I've also been browsing review sites and forums.

I realised that some of the products that have taken my interest are available from online sellers at hugely lower prices than here - no surprise there.

But what I've also realised is that the staff in a lot of these Irish retailers actually know vastly less about the products I've been querying. Harveys had a particular Onkyo amp for sale, claiming it to be the latest & greatest in its price range, but that model was actually last years, with this year's all-new, much-improved model available from the UK cheaper (even including shipping) than Harvey's price for the older amp.

The price difference here is less of an issue than the fact that they're selling an older product and claiming it to be new.

TarfHead said:
Why don't you ask the retailer, e.g. why is this TV €900 more than supercheapTV.co.uk are charging ?
Click to expand...

I have. The three that I spoke with gave various "reasons" - overheads (insurance & rent were mentioned), transport from UK and VAT. One actually tried to argue the tuner issue with me - "this TV has a tuner for Irish broadcasts, so that's why it's dearer." €900 dearer? A €900 tuner?

Even if we weren't moving to DTT from analog (which renders the built-in tuners in current Irish-market TVs obsolete), do these guys really expect me (you?) to believe that the tuner in an Irish-market TV could possibly be so different to the tuner in a UK-market TV as to result in a €900 difference in price?

I'm not offended by that argument - I'm insulted.

A lot of the staff in these places aren't even familiar with the fundamental terms and technology involved in AV products.

I've been researching this stuff for maybe two or three months and I soon realised that it was pointless asking questions in Irish dealers about some things. Blank faces often greet requests for info. Why doesn't someone working in the AV industry know more than a customer?

Surely the reasons that people are increasingly looking to the www for their purchases are obvious, and I'm no accountant:

We have limited money to spend.

We still need and want stuff.

The money that we do have stretches further if we buy from outside Ireland.

It's easy to buy online.

It's easy to learn about stuff online.

We are learning that we have strong rights when we buy online.

We resent the feeling and the actuality of being ripped off at home.

Irish sellers charge more + it's easy and safe to buy elsewhere = we buy elsewhere.

I may be naiive, or overly principled, but it seems that simple to me.

My band bought our PA from Germany for €9000 or so, saving maybe €3000 on buying in Ireland. Every item was covered by the seller's 3-year warranty, and the manufacturers own warranties.

You may indeed have to pay to ship the product back to the seller in the event of a problem, but I'll bet that you'll be sorted out quicker than if you'd dealt with an Irish seller, and still have saved money - I'm sure it doesn't cost €900 to send a TV back to the UK . . .

But in the case of the Panasonic products I've mentioned (and, incidentally, the Olympus E-410 camera I bought from komplett.ie, and possibly products from other AV manufacturers), the warranty is Europe-wide.

Here's a quote from an e-mail I got from Panasonic:

"In response, I would confirm that a product purchased in the UK and used in Ireland will have a Pan-European warranty."

So that warranty allows you to have it serviced or repaired in Ireland.

Of course, I'm sure an Irish Panasonic agent would treat you real nice if you brought your UK-purchased TV in to him for repair . . .


Mark

NOTE: Some of that was a rant. I don't feel any better, though. And I still want answers.
 
Your points about the "expertise" of electrical store staff are interesting, and mirror my own experience after buying a new hard disk DVD recorder last year. I had 2 or 3 fairly basic questions about how to operate it & the staff in the store didn't have a monkeys when I asked them. I had to ring the manufacturers' helpline for answers. One would think that stores would invest in service in order to counter the threat from online competition.
 
Thought it might be interesting to re-surrect this thread with the euro so high TV's are even cheaper now.

NOAH
 
Generally economy of scale and ease of purchase is a big one. For example where I live now makes most of the advanced notebooks for supply worldwide. Recently a colleague came back from the US, said he had two requests from friends to buy notebooks there. Seems notebooks, made here in this country, are cheaper to buy in the US, even after taking into account shipping and tax. So economies of scale do work. The other part is that in the US many companies in different industries sell directly to consumer (online or sales rep to client) rather than using distributors.

Also you have to compare 'like with like'. You can't compare a bricks 'n mortar operation with a purely online store, the overheads and service are different and there will generally be a price differential to reflect this.

Sometimes small countries like Ireland get hit by an extra middle man i.e. the retailer has to purchase off the retailer/wholesaler in UK rather than direct from supplier. If the retailer purchases directly from the Asian supplier I think that should cut the differential. However, even if the retailer does purchase direct from the supplier they can't negotiate such deep discounts due to less volume.

I think the OP's question is very specific and valid. He want's a breakdown on the costing differential and I for one am very interested in that.

I think it's ridiculous he was told to place it in 'Letting Off Steam', isn't this place called AskAboutMoney or what?
 
Pricing seems to be based on "what will these mugs pay?", rather than "what price covers my overheads, the cost of the goods to me, and gives me a reasonable profit?"

Call me naiive, but I reckon that's bad.
Click to expand...
It's capitalism. Buy low , sell high. The bigger the profit, the better.
What's 'bad' about it?
 
Yep, its quite simple - good ol' supply and demand.

If enough people purchase at the offered price, why would the price be cut ? If few buyers purchase goods at the offer price, then the price will fall - usually dressed up as a "Special Offer Sale - xx% OFF !!"
 
I had been looking at this TV and the earlier models over the last 2 years but could not justify the purchase cost here. I had searched online but could not find any dealer who would deliver outside of mainland UK.
Seeing the post above for the UK site, I was hugely interesested and followed up with a call to them. I have bought the TV in question including delivery to ROI for under 1400 Euro from them. Thats 800 euro left in my pocket that I would have spent if I purchased locally. That should be more than enough to cover any repair costs if I have to get the TV seen to locally. Thanks to the OP for the link. :D
 
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