why do accountants get paid so much

That was the nature of the bubble. All these professions and trades were able to charge excessive amounts. Easy credit and high wages inflated costs.
Now that the bubble has burst, so too will these charges go down. At least in non-protected professions.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Now that the bubble has burst, so too will these charges go down. At least in non-protected professions.
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It's also a lesson in supply and demand and open competition. With such an over-supply of accountants, lawyers, architects etc professional fees should be dropping massively over the next few years. Brick-layers (a highly skilled job, more skilled than a solicitor that has spend the last ten years trotting back and forwards to the land registry)are getting less than half the rates they were on a few years back. That's the sort of change we need in many of the professions.
 
You are being charged a rate that has to cover salaries, rent rates and many other overheads and of course a cut so that the partners can make some money.
 
my friend is qualified about 5 yrs, has great experience on about 60k but she has to work last most nights like from 9am to about 7pm.. month end worse...
 
I used to be an accountant. I left because of the long hours. Even though the earnings look good on paper, by the time you have all your hours put in, you would be earning a similar hourly rate to a skilled administrator.

In fact I think HR officers are paid very well considering they don't have the pressure of deadlines, month end etc. Also when they go on hols there isn't a huge backlog waiting for when they get back. They can get in with a certificate or degree. This would only take 2 or 3 yrs. Of course some of them would do further study by themselves but they don't NEED lots of study to get into HR.
 
But very good HR managers are rare IME and let's face it, a very good one can be invaluable to a company - probably well worth a 'good' salary. Many HR staff are not particularly well paid anyway as far as I can see.
 
buzybee said:
I used to be an accountant. I left because of the long hours. Even though the earnings look good on paper, by the time you have all your hours put in, you would be earning a similar hourly rate to a skilled administrator.

In fact I think HR officers are paid very well considering they don't have the pressure of deadlines, month end etc. Also when they go on hols there isn't a huge backlog waiting for when they get back. They can get in with a certificate or degree. This would only take 2 or 3 yrs. Of course some of them would do further study by themselves but they don't NEED lots of study to get into HR.
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Faraway hills?
 
buzybee said:
In fact I think HR officers are paid very well considering they don't have the pressure of deadlines, month end etc. Also when they go on hols there isn't a huge backlog waiting for when they get back. They can get in with a certificate or degree. This would only take 2 or 3 yrs. Of course some of them would do further study by themselves but they don't NEED lots of study to get into HR.
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From working in HR in the past I fully agree!
 
Got out of accountancy and never looked back. Working in civil service. Even though I am only on 25K for a 35 hour week, my hourly rate of pay is STILL higher than what I got when I was on 'salary' as an accountant and doing crazy hours.

Also the work is a lot less taxing, less deadlines, more people to help out for hols etc.
 
It's a valid question. Most professions that pay well in Ireland are protected by a professional accreditation association, they set the fees and you pay them or else. They also control the numbers in that industry Because of the boom there was also a massive demand for accountants, that is obviously completely changed now.

It's not got anything to do with length of study, that's a complete fallacy.
if you want to get anywhere these days you are talking about doing a master's degree, add on to your basic 4 year degree and you are talking 5-6 years..not much different than lawyer/doctor/accountant etc.
Scientists and some other professions have to study longer, work harder getting PhDs but often get lower pay.

Finally there is a recognised progression, chartered accountants etc. Depends on your level of progression into the 'club'.
 
Purple said:
With such an over-supply of accountants, lawyers, architects etc professional fees should be dropping massively over the next few years. .
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My understanding was that in relation to lawyers the fees will be going up, not down, to pay for the increased professional indemnity insurance, the lack of business and the dearth of clients who will actually pay their bills.
 
Bronte said:
My understanding was that in relation to lawyers the fees will be going up, not down, to pay for the increased professional indemnity insurance, the lack of business and the dearth of clients who will actually pay their bills.
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It would be bizarre in the extreme for anyone to put their prices up as demand for their goods or services drop. While insurance is a cost factor it’s not the major one for solicitors.
 
Purple, I think your phrase 'bizarre in the extreme' is a ridiculous comment.

From the feedback I have received from friends who are solicitors, insurance is going to cause major issues for firms going forward. In the instances that I know of, insurance has increased 4 fold from 4k to 16K. The impact of this will be that firms have & will continue to downsize.......back to your demand & supply.....also many of those made redundant will not be able to go out on their own due to the aforementioned insurance costs as most banks are not throwing money around at the moment!!!
 
InfoSeeker said:
From the feedback I have received from friends who are solicitors, insurance is going to cause major issues for firms going forward. In the instances that I know of, insurance has increased 4 fold from 4k to 16K. The impact of this will be that firms have & will continue to downsize.......back to your demand & supply.....also many of those made redundant will not be able to go out on their own due to the aforementioned insurance costs as most banks are not throwing money around at the moment!!!
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Have witnessed this in the Accountancy/Taxation sector too.
 
InfoSeeker said:
Purple, I think your phrase 'bizarre in the extreme' is a ridiculous comment.

From the feedback I have received from friends who are solicitors, insurance is going to cause major issues for firms going forward. In the instances that I know of, insurance has increased 4 fold from 4k to 16K. The impact of this will be that firms have & will continue to downsize.......back to your demand & supply.....also many of those made redundant will not be able to go out on their own due to the aforementioned insurance costs as most banks are not throwing money around at the moment!!!
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So costs increase by €12'000 per year or €1'000 a month. What does an one-person-practice solicitor turn over in a year? Is it really so little that a drop of less than €250 a week means they are better off on the dole? If that's the case then they are taking a salary of less than €500 a week or €25'000 a year. I didn't think solicitors were earning less than €12.50 a hour. Live and learn I suppose...
 
When I referred to downsizing, I was not referring to a one person firm as downsizing in that instance would mean there is no one left!!

The people whom I know would be employees & the option of whether they are better off on the dole is irrelevant as the choice is not theirs. IMHO no one is better off on the dole as the financial impact is only one of the issues that people face in this situation.

Those who do lose their jobs would certainly struggle to start up a one person practice as where would they get the start up capital and the fee base to cover costs.
 
InfoSeeker said:
When I referred to downsizing, I was not referring to a one person firm as downsizing in that instance would mean there is no one left!!

The people whom I know would be employees & the option of whether they are better off on the dole is irrelevant as the choice is not theirs. IMHO no one is better off on the dole as the financial impact is only one of the issues that people face in this situation.

Those who do lose their jobs would certainly struggle to start up a one person practice as where would they get the start up capital and the fee base to cover costs.
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Right, so why not offer to take a €12'000 pay cut rather than lose their job or increase prices?
 
Purple said:
. I didn't think solicitors were earning less than €12.50 a hour. Live and learn I suppose...
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If you are say a one man practice and you were earning 40K to 50K a year and you PI goes from 4K to 12K before any other cost and your 40K is going down to 30K or 20K then the fees are going to go up because it doesn't make sense otherwise.

What will happen is that those on these low fees will have to go out of business, lose their premises etc and for a short while fees will go up but in about 6 months to a year things will change. We will see solicitors eager for business who have scaled back their costs coming back with more competitive fees. When they move from the upmarket office on the high street with 2 secretaries and one legal executive to working from home for example. I imagine much the same will happen with accountants and other professionals. We will also see young recently qualified people with no commitments eager to do business who will stir things up.

I had a quote for a job last month from my long standing solicitor, I consider the quote really really high for the job but I'm not in a hurry and I'll wait until things have settled and fees come back down or in my case I'll do the job myself when I have time.
 
Bronte said:
If you are say a one man practice and you were earning 40K to 50K a year and you PI goes from 4K to 12K before any other cost and your 40K is going down to 30K or 20K then the fees are going to go up because it doesn't make sense otherwise.
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How would an €8’000 increase in costs reduce your income by €20’000? Rent, wages, utilities, stationary etc are going down in price so that should offset some of the insurance increase.

Bronte said:
What will happen is that those on these low fees will have to go out of business, lose their premises etc and for a short while fees will go up but in about 6 months to a year things will change. We will see solicitors eager for business who have scaled back their costs coming back with more competitive fees. When they move from the upmarket office on the high street with 2 secretaries and one legal executive to working from home for example. I imagine much the same will happen with accountants and other professionals. We will also see young recently qualified people with no commitments eager to do business who will stir things up.

I had a quote for a job last month from my long standing solicitor, I consider the quote really really high for the job but I'm not in a hurry and I'll wait until things have settled and fees come back down or in my case I'll do the job myself when I have time.
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I agree, that’s what competition does; when supply is greater than demand prices drop.
 
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