Why are they afraid to name the Golden Circle?

In technical parlance they were given an open ended Put option on Anglo at 75% of its then price. My guess that would have had a market value of about €100M. Is it legal for any company to give away €100M irrespective of the motivation? Are there tax implications?

And another thing, this Nominee shareholding thing is, in general, a nonsense. Share registers are meant to be in the public domain - why have we allowed this intention to be subverted by Nominee holdings?:(

Anyone see the graphic on this story on RTE last night? The golden 10 were depicted as 10 silhouettes. I noted distinctly two women silhouettes (hair style, dress). I'd say RTE struggled to get the PC balance correct on that graphic.:D
 
Can some one please tell me is the Government/Nation a Shareholder in Anglo or an outright owner and what legal differences it would make.
 
Sunny said:
Because simply put there are more important things at stake here such as the credibility of the Irish Financial system (whats left of it!).
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I don't agree and I believe that that is a very short term view. Certain fundamentals of banking are, in my opinion, immutable and the support of these is vital if the financial services industry in this country is to ever recover.

All this is predicated on the assumption that the golden circle did nothing wrong.
 
efm said:
I don't agree and I believe that that is a very short term view. Certain fundamentals of banking are, in my opinion, immutable and the support of these is vital if the financial services industry in this country is to ever recover.

All this is predicated on the assumption that the golden circle did nothing wrong.
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I am just back from various investor meetings in London, Milan and Frankfurt. Do you want to hazzard a guess what they all wanted to talk to me about? Their concerns weren't customer confidentiality. There won't be a long-term unless we restore confidence in the system. The reaction in Germany in particular had to be seen to believed (Having said that, they can hardly talk!). We are not talking about publishing Joe Bloggs banks details. We are talking about one transaction that has left the taxpayer with a potential bill of €300m. By all means go through the full due process of investigating the matter but the names will have to come out.
I am hearing rumours of at least one institutional investor that is getting ready to sue. Its only a matter of time before it comes out one way or another.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Anyone see the graphic on this story on RTE last night? The golden 10 were depicted as 10 silhouettes. I noted distinctly two women silhouettes (hair style, dress). I'd say RTE struggled to get the PC balance correct on that graphic.:D
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Two women silhouettes? PC balance correct? Could it not be the case of twelve males, an out of control wind machine, a badly fitting wig and a serious comb-over?:D:D
 
Sunny said:
I am hearing rumours of at least one institutional investor that is getting ready to sue. Its only a matter of time before it comes out one way or another.
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The credibility of a country's entire banking system have been the subject of days of speculation. Question have been raised (correctly) about the integrity of the political executive and financial regulators and their knowledge and involvement in key decisions of these instituions. Delay in coming clean on everything in relation to these matters, and I mean everything, is gross stupidity by the political executive and will cause untold damage to this economy. I actually can't believe that a game of Russian Roulette is being played. This gamble with our reputation, at this time, will have disasterous future consequences for the entire financial services industry here. Sorry to be so negative but it really will come to that. Time to come clean.
 
The reason why they won't name them is because the government is tied into this in some sort of underhanded way. If names are named then the beans will be spilled and more brown stuff will hit the fan, essentially uncovering more dodgy schemes and dealings tied up with politicians.
 
These feeble people won't put the country first. How shameful.
 
Turns out that it wasn't €300m:

Anglo loaned €451m to ten clients to buy shares in the bank

[broken link removed]
 
I don't really care who they 10 people are.

I just want them to repay ALL their debts to the bank.

They borrowed, bought an asset that lost value, but they still owe the loan to the bank.

The taxpayer who now owns the bank should not be exposed to any losses.
 
Eblanoid said:
Turns out that it wasn't €300m:

Anglo loaned €451m to ten clients to buy shares in the bank

[broken link removed]
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:eek:

Conspiracy?
 
Presumably Anglo could seek a refund of the money and initiate legal proceedings immediately if they do not repay it.

The court case would then be public.

Brendan
 
Not used to reading annual reports, but looking at the Anglo one makes no sense
http://www.rns-pdf.londonstockexchange.com/rns/6782N_-2009-2-20.pdf
They've made profits of €784M
They've a lending impairment provision of €724 for this year, but surely the loans for the share purchase & director loans are nearly half this already?
Customer lending in Ireland from 2007 to 2008 increased from €37Bn to €42.8Bn a 16% increase at a time property sales and the economy in general were already slowing dramatically. Either they have alot of recent (= risky) loans and/or a sizeable amount of the payments on the €37Bn is being "rolled up"?
 
[FONT=&quot]Why are they afraid to name the Golden Circle?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Because 451 million could have paid for rail services, or motorways or schools or hospitals or expanding broadband services ,or upgrading the electricity network or been allocated towards attracting Foreign Direct Investment or a multitide of other beneficial projects, and if the names come out and the dots are joined so much outrage will be felt that the Government could not last another hour or nevermind another day.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Whats really after going down? Unknown "Investors" were given an opportunity to acquire 10% stake of one of the main banks in the country.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lets list out potential problems with the way this "Golden Circle" deal could have legal implications.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1.They had access to insider information, due to the fact they were approached -illegal[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2.They were lent money by an institution to purchase shares in that institution[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-dodgy and most likely illegal.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. The security for the loans were for the most part on the shares themselves, with no recourse if the security became valueless.- intentional bad management. Goes against everything that banking relies on.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4.They're actions inflated the share price of the institution and didn't reflect the real value of the shares - illegal[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. Having this insider information could have led even those in the Golden Circle or any Brokers/Dealers involved to realise that the price is artifical and therefore "Shorting Anglo" would be a safe bet.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6. There is nothing to say that even these in the "Golden Circle" couldn't have easily taken short positions in Anglo alongside their holdings and reaped montrous profits from shorting the stock while still holding a stake and then dumping the shares at a loss - insider info can be invaluable. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7. It may not be possible to name them from their 1% stakes as shareholders, but they certainly could be named in Stubs Gazzette or in the Dáil under Dáil privilege due to defaulting on their loan repayments (if they have defaulted) and otherwise from the loan agreement forms which they or their representatives would have signed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Naming them is better than due process, because ultimately spending 2 months in an open prison in Wicklow and out in 2 weeks for good behaviour isn’t justice, (White collar crime).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Its been said that it could scupper any investigation as it could prevent prosecution- ha! Both Lenihan and Hanafin were on the ball from the word go by saying that there was nothing illegal about Fitzpatricks loans, not a month or two after the story broke but immediately- sounds to me like they had loads of info back then to come to that conclusion. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This was a massive fraudulent operation and has involved many different parties, of which everyone who works (or not) and has to pay tax or rely on services just to get by is a victim. These fools (or were they?) have wiped out the efforts of many workers to build this economy, a career, a family , a community. Ireland is a worse place because of them and their ilk.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1010395.shtml [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1004/bank.html[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0621/fitzpatricks.html[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Let us have some leadership, lets hold this government to account for their lack of leadership. Call a general election because as sure as nobody will go to jail, the eyes of the international investment community are no-longer on our banks and their failures and scandals, but more on our government and their ability to manage this dreadful debacle. Call an election and give us a chance to test the mandate of this current bunch about whether they have the will of the people behind them. Thats the only justice
[/FONT]
 
Complainer are you in the circle? No your not - the remaining names will be out shortly. It's not a laughing matter, ask Gillian Bowler about the alleged verbal abuse she had in Donnybrook recently.
 
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