where can I look for the employer´s obligations towards apprentices.?

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adorado

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Hello,

I wonder if anybody knows where can I look for the employer´s obligations towards apprentices.

We have the feeling the apprentice that we have working for us is trying to take advantage from us.

It would be handy to find out the apprentices´ rights and obligations as well.

Thanks
 
Re: Apprentice taking advantage?

The FAS Website doesn´t go into a lot of detail as far as I can see, unfortunately.

Any other suggestions?
 
Re: Apprentice taking advantage?

He is taking a lot of days off, arriving late and finishing early, is demanding a pay rise (he is already getting paid more that the minimum wage becasue he is a bit older, we felt we'll give him more...). He hasn't been in FAS yet, but has been employed for a year, so he wants 2nd year wages. As far as I can see if he hasn't completed the course in FAS he doesn't qualify as a 2nd year apprentice, so his wages shouldn't increase.
His performance is quite poor, otherwise, we'll be more than happy to reward him. There are other issues as well. I hope this answers.
 
Re: Apprentice taking advantage?

I see. I was once an apprentice with a semi state body and I will try to relate to your story. If he is in your employment as an apprentice for 1 year then he should be getting 2nd year wages. The FAS course has no relevance to his right to the 2nd year rates. Why has he not gone to FAs yet? Are you not allowing him time off to attend?

If you are planning to get rid of him as his attendance, work is poor etc then thread carefully as he has 1 years service in and can use the unfair dismissals act if you fire him for stated misbehaviour. You could have let him go when he had less than 365 days in without comeback on yourself.

Have you warned him yet about his work/attendance etc? Start putting everything in writing.
 
Re: Apprentice taking advantage?

Thanks.

We can't wait for him to go to FAS, but he hasn't been called yet! He should have been there after 12 weeks of being with us.

We know we have to be careful at this stage, for everything. Timesheets and an annual leave sheet are in place now.

How about Pension? Do we have to contribute as well?
 
Re: Apprentice taking advantage?

Bond is correct; he started from the date that you registered him with FAS as an apprentice.
It is very hard to sack an apprentice for bad workmanship as that's up to who is training him. You can however get rid of him for bad time keeping. You need to have a written policy in place for this. You need to give two verbal warnings (and record in his personnel file that you gave then) and at least one written warning. You can then sack him for bad time keeping. Do play silly buggers or try to short cut anything, be fair and above board in how you deal with him and if he does improve his time keeping then you are stuck with him.
If he is no good then don't pay above the rates listed on the FAS website and he might bugger off anyway.

BTW in my opinion the apprentice training system that is currently in place is a joke and not worth a thing. The old system where an apprentice spent their first year off the job in FAS and college was much better. When they went into a company they had basic skills and knew what best practice was from a health and safety point of view. They idea that small employers will diligently fill in continuous assessment forms is rubbish and even if they do how can they possible be objective?
With all the talk about up-skilling we are worse at doing the basics now than we were 20 years ago! We pay for our trades people to go to night classes or do distance learning, we give them extra time off to study and we pay them more if they improve their skill by passing the exams. The standard of people we get for these jobs, paying from €35'000 to €90'000 a year, is abysmal. If it wasn't for skilled workers from Eastern Europe and the Far East we would be out of business. And yes, we pay the same rates to non-nationals.
Rant over, apologies for taking the thread off topic.:)
 
Re: Apprentice taking advantage?

BTW in my opinion the apprentice training system that is currently in place is a joke and not worth a thing.

I have to agree with you on that.

This guy has a VERY good and patient teacher, but he is just not interested plus he is far too old to be an apprentice.

Basically, we are stuck with him. If I did in my job things he has done I'll be fired. Funny isn't it?
 
Re: Apprentice taking advantage?

gianni said:
What has age got to do with it ?
Click to expand...

The needs of a young person living at home, are not the same as an adult with a mortgage, family, etc...

I am sure there are people who are able to learn a trade in their 30s, but prepare to compromise to 1st year apprentice's wages after being employed before? That is not that easy.

Then I wonder, why would you leave your job and become an apprentice when you CLEARLY don't have the interest for the trade? I don't know!
 
Re: Apprentice taking advantage?

adorado said:
The needs of a young person living at home, are not the same as an adult with a mortgage, family, etc...

I am sure there are people who are able to learn a trade in their 30s, but prepare to compromise to 1st year apprentice's wages after being employed before? That is not that easy.

Then I wonder, why would you leave your job and become an apprentice when you CLEARLY don't have the interest for the trade? I don't know!
Click to expand...
Why did you you take him on as an apprentice then as I am sure you were aware of his age when you employed him
 
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