Fair Deal/Nursing Homes When to start Fair Deal Process

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world201812

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I have a parent who unfortunately been sick of late, was in hospital and she has recently gone to nursing home to convalesce.

The nursing home is costing approximately 1,200 per week, and will be paid for out of savings for the foreseeable, imagine for a month at least.

However, the reality is I am not convinced they will be able to return home and it is very much a ‘wait and see’ approach for now until such time as they recover.

Doctors have floated the possibility of long term care being needed, and the convalesce/nursing home option becoming permanent, to add to it the convalesce/nursing home say they are in the fairdeal scheme, and have encouraged me to apply anyhow as application process can take 12 weeks they claim?!

Anyhow, I’m finding it hard to plan as A, I am hoping my parent will return home, but B, there is an increasing medical reality and C. Financial planning wise, I don’t have a clue how long at the current 1,200 per week she will burn through savings etc.

Ultimately, I just want my parent, safe and secure as they are at the moment.

But back to the Fair Deal, should I just apply anyhow/start ball rolling?

How have applicants found the process?

And for some in my shoes, at what point should I apply Fair Deal?

Should I just let the savings cover the nursing home for now? And not enter in to any scheme?

Where do people find advice on this.
 
I don't believe you can apply for fair deal until such time as you have a written recommendation from your parents consultant.

In the meantime however, you can download the forms & start gathering in the paperwork you need.

The fees can be claimed for with revenue, but the odds are your parent doesn't pay much tax.

In the meantime you can pay the fees yourself & claim the tax back at the full rate.

If your parent is able to do so (i.e. no mental issues / dementia etc) it would be worth getting your name added to utilities / bank accounts etc., so you can get paperwork more easily.
 
You can apply now but you'll need a consultant to certify that your mother needs long term nursing care. As DannyBoyD wrote, start assembling financial data and consider power of attorney or Decision Support Service, whichever is appropriate. It probably will take a few months but an element of FD may be paid retrospectively.
 
Convalescence is usually short term. A few rhetorical questions for you to think about:
Who is making the decisions? A doctor from the hospital or the nursing home? Can you speak to them? It's reasonable to cut to the chase and ask if you should be applying for Fair Deal. What does your parent want? Unless you have Enduring Power of Attorney you may not be able to apply on their behalf. A lot of financial information is needed too. What would need to happen for your parent to be able to go home? Maybe they need a Home Care package. Or maybe they need to be more mobile / independent. Is your other parent around?
One of my parents availed of Fair Deal and spent 3 years in a Nursing Home. They went in from home though, not from hospital or convalescence. The public health nurse was involved in assessing whether they needed nursing home care
 
Having been through the application process for my father in law I think you’re right to start information gathering now.
From start of application to final approval took five months for me. I returned all requested information without delay.
I found the Fair Deal staff very helpful and replied to my emails promptly.
There was an option on the application for my father in law to authorise me to assist and to be a point of contact on his behalf.
This helped.
 
DannyBoyD

Noted on ‘If your parent is able to do so (i.e. no mental issues / dementia etc) it would be worth getting your name added to utilities / bank accounts etc., so you can get paperwork more easily’.

I’ve tried this but believe it or not our experience with BOI was appalling on this, they said not possible to add my name to account, we’d have to open a joint account, but all direct debits etc in original account, but noted, will need to follow-up.

Also, I didn’t realise about parents consultant had to recommend.

Slim​


Thanks, I’ve had power of attorney for years/all in order on that score.

POC​



You raise many salient points, none of which I have the answer to, its pass the parcel stuff from PHN to GP to Convalescence to other Doctor.

I am the decision maker, parent wants to return home and I am doing all in my power to make that happen.

Due to a variety of factors/family, I am the only one supporting my parent on this.

The health system has been an absolute nightmare to navigate, and to be frank I’ve been less than impressed by some of the health care professionals.

I think people who work in the system don’t have a breeze how complicated it is to navigate.
 
world201812 said:
people who work in the system don’t have a breeze how complicated it is to navigate
Click to expand...
Probably true, but also allow for the fact that this is the first time you've had to do so & add in the stress of concern for your parent plus lack of support from the rest of your siblings.

So look after yourself as well, recognise the stress points & find a way to defuse them.

The overwhelming majority of people in healthcare want to do their best for their patients & will do all they can to help. But keep in mind your parent is not the only one in their care.
 
Been through this, end to end as they say, in recent years and I've learnt a number of things.

Firstly, we'd put the POA in place many years ago, I know the process has changed in recent time, but if you get it sorted it will make life easier, especially with the banks. BOI have a team who deal with senior/vulnerable resources and our experience, once we had the POA in place was very straightforward. Bear in mind as well, that providing there is money in the bank account and you are paying everything via DD, there is actually very little BOI need to know, it only becomes an issue for changing anything or adding to it.

In terms of Fair Deal, yes start the ball rolling. We found the Fair Deal team very helpful and the nursing homes are well versed in dealing with them. Just be honest, don't try and hide anything as 9 times out of 10, it will be found out.

In terms of the HSE etc, the potential mistake you made when moving to a convelesence home is not insisting on a home care package being signed off for when she potentially comes out of it. It's going to sound very cruel, but you have leverage when the relative is taking a hospital bed, not when they have moved out and you're covering the cost. We had to get very snotty with the discharge team in a hospital in Cork as we couldn't manage Mam at home without that package. In the end, we got it and supported her at home for another 3 years but we basically weren't taking any nonsense from them and we had to deal with some fine people but also people who were at best incompetent and at times downright nasty.

Worth having a conversation with the local district nurse as well, they can give great guidance, sometimes off the record.
 
A good public health nurse is a great ally. They can get things done. She is the key to unlocking services in the community, such as carers, physio, OT, Meals on Wheels, Day centres etc etc. She could also link in with the GP or consultant if needed. Is your parent known to her already? As your goal is to get your parent home, it's worth contacting her (if you haven't already).
 
You can apply now. Gather up your documentation, fill in the application form and send it all in. The HSE will acknowledge your application and they will then organise the care needs assessment.

I don’t know how long approval lasts but we had approval and managed at home for a further year with additional support before taking up full time nursing home care under Fair Deal.

Definitely as others have advised, get on your local Public Health Nurses radar.

The HSE provide step by step instructions for your application here;
https://www2.hse.ie/services/schemes-allowances/fair-deal-scheme/application-process/
 
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DannyBoyD



Thanks DannyBoyD, and totally get it they have 101 things to concern them bar my parent.

thedaddyman​



This in interesting, POA in place and turned up at Branch with IDs etc and BOI didn’t want to know, said it wasn’t possible, we went down road to credit union and equivalent sorted in five minutes, different gravy!

So the home care package is signed off on pending discharge, its great to have it but personally I think my parent safer where they are, but their wishes are to be respected so home we go.

And thanks POC and Des Pondent too​

​

 
Good luck to you and your parent. Sometimes people 'improve' a lot when they are in their own home. Improvement means different things to different people. The most important things are that your parent is happier and safe.
 
world201812 said:
DannyBoyD



Thanks DannyBoyD, and totally get it they have 101 things to concern them bar my parent.

thedaddyman​



This in interesting, POA in place and turned up at Branch with IDs etc and BOI didn’t want to know, said it wasn’t possible, we went down road to credit union and equivalent sorted in five minutes, different gravy!

So the home care package is signed off on pending discharge, its great to have it but personally I think my parent safer where they are, but their wishes are to be respected so home we go.

And thanks POC and Des Pondent too​

​

Click to expand...
I'd raise a formal complaint with BOI, some branches are staffed by rude clueless morons
 
Hi all,

Just to say thanks for all the advice on this thread, very much appreciated.

In light of the pace of declining health, we have decided not to go down the Fair Deal and pay for care from savings, grim as my context sounds.

The home care package has been signed off on, but in reality I can’t see my parent returning home such are the care needs.

Overall, we’ve found many of the health professionals very decent, but many not in terms of their interest, they also seem to assume everyone knows/understands the system.

The positive thing is my parent is safe where they are.

The palliative care situation has not been good, one well known hospice has claimed parent is out of catchment area and has washed hands. But we’ll get sorted.

Fair point on BOI, and complaint, I think to be honest I have enough admin/paperwork to sort regarding parent at the moment, I am trying to make life as stress free as possible.

Thanks again.
 
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