Weather Disrupts Bus Services

[MOB]

I really don't know if those who grit our roads are more or less efficient than those who grit the roads in Stockholm or Munich and I don't want to even start that argument. Nor for that matter do I want to have a go at our planners or our politicians.

What I do think needs to be pointed out - over and over again - is that we have chosen to organise ourselves in this country in a certain way.

We have chosen to have a preponderance of semi-detached housing estates in the suburbs, with relatively low population density in our city centres.

Within those housing estates, we have decided that an "organic" (no -don't ask me how it looks organic; truly I don't know) street layout, so that there are curves and cul-de sacs all over and a relative dearth of main\spine distributor roads on which public transport services ( and gritting services) can be easily concentrated.

We have chosen to allow people build on their land in rural areas, leading to a very dispersed settlement pattern. I should say that I do not necessarily oppose this policy: I merely make the observation that having chosen this way of organising our lives, we must accept the consequences.

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that our public sector workers are in fact at least as good and efficient as those of Stockholm or Munich; the reality is that we are asking them to work in a physical environment where they simply cannot deliver the same level of service to the citizenry. This is not the fault of politicians: we have exactly the sort of dispersed country that we wanted; if there is a serious change of public opinion on the wisdom of past planning policy, this may change ( over the course of perhaps two generations). But we weren't codded into our present situation. As a people, this is exactly what we asked for.

 

[Latrade]

Have I missed something? Where did anyone criticise public sector workers or accuse civil service workers of sitting on their backsides? Now you are the one starting the whole thing up again. It's like a version of Godwin's law at this stage

Not really, it's just a small attempt (operative word) at humour given the disposition of the natives to start looking for heads to roll and people to blame for any issue. Tongue in cheek like. Given the PS and CS have been the whipping boys/girls for the last 18 months I thought I'd throw it in. If people seriously take it up as bait to have a go at the PS or CS then they probably need this inability to travel to take the time out to reflect on themselves.

 

[Sunny]

Not really, it's just a small attempt (operative word) at humour given the disposition of the natives to start looking for heads to roll and people to blame for any issue. Tongue in cheek like. Given the PS and CS have been the whipping boys/girls for the last 18 months I thought I'd throw it in. If people seriously take it up as bait to have a go at the PS or CS then they probably need this inability to travel to take the time out to reflect on themselves.

Fair enough but the way things have been, you were asking for trouble!

 

[liaconn]

I really don't know if those who grit our roads are more or less efficient than those who grit the roads in Stockholm or Munich and I don't want to even start that argument. Nor for that matter do I want to have a go at our planners or our politicians.

What I do think needs to be pointed out - over and over again - is that we have chosen to organise ourselves in this country in a certain way.

We have chosen to have a preponderance of semi-detached housing estates in the suburbs, with relatively low population density in our city centres.

Within those housing estates, we have decided that an "organic" (no -don't ask me how it looks organic; truly I don't know) street layout, so that there are curves and cul-de sacs all over and a relative dearth of main\spine distributor roads on which public transport services ( and gritting services) can be easily concentrated.

We have chosen to allow people build on their land in rural areas, leading to a very dispersed settlement pattern. I should say that I do not necessarily oppose this policy: I merely make the observation that having chosen this way of organising our lives, we must accept the consequences.

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that our public sector workers are in fact at least as good and efficient as those of Stockholm or Munich; the reality is that we are asking them to work in a physical environment where they simply cannot deliver the same level of service to the citizenry. This is not the fault of politicians: we have exactly the sort of dispersed country that we wanted; if there is a serious change of public opinion on the wisdom of past planning policy, this may change ( over the course of perhaps two generations). But we weren't codded into our present situation. As a people, this is exactly what we asked for.

I know what you're saying MOB but, in fairness, I don't think 'we' chose a lot of these things. They were forced on us by corrupt politicians, developers and Co Councillors in many cases. Most of us would have preferred much stricter and properly enforced planning regulations that wouldn't see so many people scattered around outer suburbs or living in isolation while City Centres and Towns remain largely unpopulated and turn into 'no go' areas at night time.

 

[Bronte]

I know what you're saying MOB but, in fairness, I don't think 'we' chose a lot of these things. They were forced on us by corrupt politicians, developers and Co Councillors in many cases. Most of us would have preferred much stricter and properly enforced planning regulations that wouldn't see so many people scattered around outer suburbs or living in isolation while City Centres and Towns remain largely unpopulated and turn into 'no go' areas at night time.

And who didn't lobby a county coucillor when refussed planning permission to get the son or daughter the one off house miles from nowhere which was then sold on and another house built etc etc etc ?

I was on the M8, M7 and M50 on the 1st January. One inch of snow and some ice and Ireland comes to a standstill. Particulary where the Limerick and Cork road joined together and from there going towards Dublin. These are not any roads, they are the main arteries in a wealthy country. There is absolutely no reasonable explaination why there should be chaos on primary routes. I saw no grit nor gritters in our long ardous journey, with trucks (and other lunatics at speed) passing out on the icy fast lane spraying snow and ice on the tailbacks in the 'very' slow lane and where there were 3 lanes being passed on both sides (middle lane, a long tailback, being by then relatively clear due to traffic) by those in a hurry and with no care as to their own safety or the safety of others. I don't know how there weren't more accidents. There are not too many main roads in Ireland but surely keeping all main roads to and from Dublin to the other major cities clear isn't beyond the capabilities of those in charge.

As for the excuses of Dublin Bus, by pass the housing estates in an emergency weather situation is that too difficult.

I dread to think what would happen if there was 2 inches of snow.

 

[Firefly]

Not if it snows again!

Here's the reality of a gritting operation;

[broken link removed]

Good point and with MOB's addition (post 21) I think it's impossible to grit all roads well, esp those small, rural ones. Best we can hope for is that the cities and major roads are gritted, but alas this does not seem to be the case. The roads leading into Cork city this morning from Mallow and Carrigaline were treacherous.

 

[MOB]

I know what you're saying MOB but, in fairness, I don't think 'we' chose a lot of these things.

I think we did. For example, I can't recall any county councillor ever seeking election ( and certainly I can't recall one ever getting elected) on a platform of stamping out one-off rural housing.

It is also clear that in Dublin\Greater Dublin Area, houses remain hugely more popular than apartments, with apartments being by far the hardest hit sector in terms of unsold housing stock. Even well built, spacious apartments are quite hard to shift. That is what 'we' as a nation choose.

 

[nmesisca]

You try driving a double decker on black ice....Dublin Bus drivers don't get paid nearly enough for that! It was ONE day that all services were cancelled, an unprecendented event due to extreme conditions, every other day has had almost full services with minor diversions.

how is 1 inch of snow "extreme" conditions exactly?
if a driver cant cope with that I really dont think I would want to employ him/her.

 

[csirl]

You try driving a double decker on black ice....Dublin Bus drivers don't get paid nearly enough for that! It was ONE day that all services were cancelled, an unprecendented event due to extreme conditions, every other day has had almost full services with minor diversions.

At the moment, the route I live on is running at about 50% capacity. I live in Dublin City. All the roads the bus uses are clear and have been for days. There is no reason for having reduced capacity on the route.

 

[MOB]

how is 1 inch of snow "extreme" conditions exactly?
if a driver cant cope with that I really dont think I would want to employ him/her.

I may be wrong about this - but I think that short of snow being an actual physical obstacle (i.e. needing snowploughs to clear the road) the big problem on the road is ice, whether from frost, frozen rain or compacted snow. Ice is at its most dangerous when it is just around melting point ( i.e. when you can have black ice). And even an inch of snow is enough to produce that ice layer we all know and love........

I would bet that our typical cold snap - where there is a very slight thaw most days - probably produces more dangerous driving conditions than you would see in those countries where the snow stays powder-dry and the temperature never gets above freezing over the winter period.

 

[truthseeker]

I would bet that our typical cold snap - where there is a very slight thaw most days - probably produces more dangerous driving conditions than you would see in those countries where the snow stays powder-dry and the temperature never gets above freezing over the winter period.

Totally agree with this, in my own estate, by far the most dangerous times have been during and after a bit of a thaw. The day before xmas eve it rained a little onto twice refrozen ice and the footpaths and roads became absolutely lethal, I fell myself, the xmas ham thats Id just collected went spinning across the carpark like it was rocket propelled, and it was like a comedy watching people trying to get from car to home - the only way was to walk in the shrubbery where there was a small bit of grip.

By contrast, New Years Eve night I walked quite comfortable along on the freshly fallen snow with no slippage at all.

 

[Firefly]

the xmas ham thats Id just collected went spinning across the carpark like it was rocket propelled

Yeah, and pigs might fly

 

[damson]

Where my brother lived (rural Scotland 5 years ago), the council left piles of grit at intervals along isolated rural roads and my understanding is that it was down to the locals to use them as required.

 

[The_Banker]

All buses in Dublin stopped now.. It appears the various radio shows are now devoting hours to it as Dublin is affected.
No such coverage when it was just Donegal, Galway, Sligo and Leitrim that was affected.
Ireland certainly ends at the edge of The Pale!

 

[Bill Struth]

All buses in Dublin stopped now.. It appears the various radio shows are now devoting hours to it as Dublin is affected.
No such coverage when it was just Donegal, Galway, Sligo and Leitrim that was affected.
Ireland certainly ends at the edge of The Pale!

Yawn.

Wake us up when you're finished eh?

 

[Lex Foutish]

All buses in Dublin stopped now.. It appears the various radio shows are now devoting hours to it as Dublin is affected.
No such coverage when it was just Donegal, Galway, Sligo and Leitrim that was affected.
Ireland certainly ends at the edge of The Pale!

I'm here in Utopia, having a pint of Beamish, and thinking of all those poor craters in Dublin, huddled around their pints of Guinness, contemplating what life in the capital will be like, if they get a second inch of snow!

Will they be able to drive arind their rindabites? Will buses be abandoned on the streets? Will it be the end of civilisation as we know it?

 

[haminka1]

OK, let's face it - Ireland simply isn't able to cope with snow or any kind of wintry weather - neither is the government ready nor the drivers. i was standing at a roundabout today and the van in front of me was skidding like hell, zigzaging all over the road. i don't know how far this guy had to go and had gone but if he had any longer journey ahead, i'm sure the van did not make it - summer tires, for god's sake!
and overloaded up to the hilt, i'm sure of that.
if this kind of weather becomes regularity with the global warming, there will be no excuse for the government for not stocking up on salt, grit and decent machinery and winter tires becoming a must for every car - most of the countries in Europe made it a law for every driver to have a set of winter tires and put them on in october or november.

 

[BillK]

If it's any consolation, the area of England in which I live had 1000 schools closed today. Mind you, there were over two inches of snow on the drive so I guess that's some excuse.

I can remember walking to school in Coventry in the winter of 1947 when the snow was feet deep; I can also remember going to work in the winter of 1962/3 when it was also a bit deep.
I wonder if it's fear of the compensation culture or just the need to sensationalise everything by the media.

 

[haminka1]

If it's any consolation, the area of England in which I live had 1000 schools closed today. Mind you, there were over two inches of snow on the drive so I guess that's some excuse.

I can remember walking to school in Coventry in the winter of 1947 when the snow was feet deep; I can also remember going to work in the winter of 1962/3 when it was also a bit deep.
I wonder if it's fear of the compensation culture or just the need to sensationalise everything by the media.

walking to school? some kids would actually have to walk some 1 km /or 1 mile/ to school! you can't really expect them, what about their carefully laid layers of fat from Sunday McDonald's lunches!
also, how many of them have actually seen decent winter shoes in their lives? and no, uggs are no decent winter shoes ...

 

[RonanC]

If today's weather was bad, imagine what the following could do to us if it continues on it's current path, currently north of Scotland - It is coming down from the Arctic and is building all the time. If that hits us we could see feet and not cm's of snow

[broken link removed]