VRT enforcement procedure

[briancbyrne]

what other laws are you in favour of us all breaking? what sort of income tax rate do you want? you do realise that the money raised from VRT is used to fund the state and has to come from somewhere, right?

just as well Rosa Parks didnt have such an attitude in Montgomery all those years ago and decided to question a law she felt was unfair ;-)


its a poor day when someone cant question the fairness and legitamacy(is Vehicle Registration TAXATION a form of double taxation of a product when it already been taxed when first been brought into the E.U ? - some might say so... ) of a law that is in place. Afterall they are doing it not just on behalf of themselves but on behalf of everybody.

 

[bertson]

Yes - why should I pay VRT, while you drive around in a northern car without paying the VRT?

VRT is a nonsense, but is the law, and I have little sympathy for you

 

[briancbyrne]

Do you mean a moral right? There is certainly no legal right. If any damage is done to your vehicle or another person or their property then the gardai will be legally liable.

Do you under the law not have a legal responsibility to only allow drivers who are insured to drive your vehicle, to do so?

By asking for this proof are you not upholding your legal responsibility?

 

[sse]

just as well Rosa Parks didnt have such an attitude in Montgomery all those years ago and decided to question a law she felt was unfair ;-)


its a poor day when someone cant question the fairness and legitamacy(is Vehicle Registration TAXATION a form of double taxation of a product when it already been taxed when first been brought into the E.U ? - some might say so... ) of a law that is in place. Afterall they are doing it not just on behalf of themselves but on behalf of everybody.

Equating a tax with the civil rights movement, way to go, maybe try and have a sense of proportion?

If VRT was abolished tomorrow everybody would be on here complaining about how their second hand cars weren't worth as much now.

I'd rather have VRT than the shortfall made up on income tax.

SSE

 

[briancbyrne]

Equating a tax with the civil rights movement, way to go, maybe try and have a sense of proportion?

Well perhaps you can tell me at what point does one decide something is important enough to question the legitamacy & fairness of a law ? - I think the principal of the arguement holds thru -just making the point that everyone (thank god) in this country has a right to question the laws of society. I for one am glad we have this luxury.

 

[Caveat]

Questioning the law is one thing but advocating breaking the law (as another poster has seemingly done) is just irresponsible and silly.

Your other example was arguably a human rights issue - "unfair" taxes most certainly is not.

 

[sse]

Well perhaps you can tell me at what point does one decide something is important enough to question the legitamacy & fairness of a law ? - I think the principal of the arguement holds thru -just making the point that everyone (thank god) in this country has a right to question the laws of society. I for one am glad we have this luxury.

I'm not even remotely challenging your right to question the government's fiscal policy. The simple fact is that VRT brings in a great deal of revenue and this would have to come from somewhere else - the obvious one being income tax - and I for one don't believe this redistribution would be remotely "fair".

On a practical note I would have thought that a case on VRT would already have happened if it had even a remote chance of succeeding.

SSE

 

[Iceman732]

Questioning the law is one thing but advocating breaking the law (as another poster has seemingly done) is just irresponsible and silly.

Your other example was arguably a human rights issue - "unfair" taxes most certainly is not.

Watch your acquisitions. It's irresponsible and silly to be suggesting that other posters are advocating breaking the law.

I simply said to all those driving Northern Reg cars I salute you.

Caveat are you telling me it's illegal to drive a Northern Reg car in southern Ireland? You'd clearly be wrong, so please don't refer to me as either irresponsible or silly.

 

[Iceman732]

I'm not even remotely challenging your right to question the government's fiscal policy. The simple fact is that VRT brings in a great deal of revenue and this would have to come from somewhere else - the obvious one being income tax - and I for one don't believe this redistribution would be remotely "fair".

On a practical note I would have thought that a case on VRT would already have happened if it had even a remote chance of succeeding.

SSE

I mentioned that it costs a minimum of €300,000 to take a case to the ECJ, now how many individuals pay over €300,000 in VRT in a life time? If you assumed an individual was paying €12,000 VRT a vehicle then would be 25 cars.

There was a group of people who almost were successful in bringing a case to the ECJ but unfortunately they ran into financial problems.

I would remind posters that this forum is meant to be from a motorists perspective not from a taxation point of view.

 

[Iceman732]

just as well Rosa Parks didnt have such an attitude in Montgomery all those years ago and decided to question a law she felt was unfair ;-)


its a poor day when someone cant question the fairness and legitamacy(is Vehicle Registration TAXATION a form of double taxation of a product when it already been taxed when first been brought into the E.U ? - some might say so... ) of a law that is in place. Afterall they are doing it not just on behalf of themselves but on behalf of everybody.

Agreed!

Do you under the law not have a legal responsibility to only allow drivers who are insured to drive your vehicle, to do so?

By asking for this proof are you not upholding your legal responsibility?

Agreed!

 

[Caveat]

Watch your acquisitions.

Er...ok will do...thanks

I simply said to all those driving Northern Reg cars I salute you.

Indeed. Well apologies if I have offended your sensibilities (and note I said seemingly in my post) but dereko1969 already challenged this statement and since the only response you gave was:



...when you had the chance to refute or explain - what else am I to infer?

So maybe in the interests of clarity could you explain what you meant and exactly why you "salute" those driving northern reg cars?

 

[Iceman732]

Er...ok will do...thanks



Indeed. Well apologies if I have offended your sensibilities (and note I said seemingly in my post) but dereko1969 already challenged this statement and since the only response you gave was:



...when you had the chance to refute or explain - what else am I to infer?

So maybe in the interests of clarity could you explain what you meant and exactly why you "salute" those driving northern reg cars?

I love the colour of the reg plates. Doesn't the yellow make the back of the car look so much better. I also love the fact that people don't know how old the car is!

Personally I feel anyone who thinks VRT is a reasonable tax is completes nuts. The idea of someone living in, say, the border who has to pay about €5000 more for a family sized car just because they put an Irish plate on the car is complete madness.

What I think is just a complete joke is the fact that somebody who imports a car and pays the VRT on it doesn't even get number plates! Somes pays through the teeth to register the car and they don't get the bloody plates!

 

[briancbyrne]

my bone of contention is not the fact that you have to pay a registration fee.... fair enough you get nothing for nothing in this world. My problem is that the open market selling price is not a true reflection of market conditions. We have been constantly told that we are in an open european market yet this only seems true when it suits the powers that be and doesnt offend the pockets of the power brokers in society( garage owners, publicans etc) who hold sway over our politicians pockets.

Im just glad that these garage owners are being hit where it hurts more and more as indicated in this article as they have obviously been ripping off the irish consumer over the past years.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/usedcar-imports-soar-in-crippling-blow-to-dealers-1472798.html

given that people are still importing cars in thier droves despite the high rates of VRT proves that garages in Ireland are charging above the odds for a product whic is below the standard offered in the UK market (in terms of extras, interiors, milegae, condition etc)

 

[dereko1969]

The idea of someone living in, say, the border who has to pay about €5000 more for a family sized car just because they put an Irish plate on the car is complete madness.

but the person on the northern side of the border will be (more than likely) paying higher income tax, higher corporation tax, higher capital gains tax etc..

i don't agree with VRT either, it is anti-competitive and some of the OMSPs are suspect i would actually prefer a higher income tax as sales taxes such as VAT and VRT affect all equally regardless of income, BUT if i have to pay it i expect everyone to pay it and am glad to see some enforcement of it, and please no more quoting of rosa parks or the boston tea party it actually totally belittles your side of the discussion comparing the two.