Understanding taxable expense - travel

whytis

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Hey,

I'm a sole trader (plus working full time). Most business is online, so I'm not usually building up much travel expenses.

I would like to travel within Ireland for the business (meet customers, video record marketing material, and such).

I take it that accommodation, for example would be covered?

Counting fuel expenses seems slightly more complicated, is that right?

And from what I understand, food cannot be counted as a business expense?

Whytis
 
Hi whytis,

To count as a business expense, the travel must be for business purposes. This specifically excludes travelling to and from your normal office - this is just commuting.

So travelling here and there to meet clients is a valid business expense. As is any meals, accomodation, tolls, fuel etc. etc. Practically the only thing you can't expense is alcholol.

Fuel becomes difficult when you mix personal and business use. However, if you travel from Point A to Point B for business, just record the number of miles and work out how much fuel you used.

It might be simpler to just pay yourself mileage and nightly subsistance, there are other posts on here explaining all about that.
 
Hi whytis,

To count as a business expense, the travel must be for business purposes. This specifically excludes travelling to and from your normal office - this is just commuting.

So travelling here and there to meet clients is a valid business expense. As is any meals, accomodation, tolls, fuel etc. etc. Practically the only thing you can't expense is alcholol.

Fuel becomes difficult when you mix personal and business use. However, if you travel from Point A to Point B for business, just record the number of miles and work out how much fuel you used.

It might be simpler to just pay yourself mileage and nightly subsistance, there are other posts on here explaining all about that.

This is poor advice Seán.

This question keeps cropping up, and people keep on talking about "mileage & subsistence" - these simply don't apply in the context of a sole trader.

Also, this notion that everything except alcohol can be expensed is not accurate either. Revenue's manual states the following about the allowability of meals for self-employed ([broken link removed]):

"Cost of Meals
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]It is a long established principle that the cost of meals taken at the place of business are not allowable expenses for tax purposes. In addition, expenses incurred on meals consumed away from the place of business are, in general, not wholly and exclusively laid out for the purposes of the trade or profession since everyone must eat in order to live. Where such costs are not allowable they may not be apportioned to allow extra costs incurred from the necessity of eating away from home or from the place of business.[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Costs of meals may be incurred wholly and exclusively for business purposes where a business by its nature involves travelling (for example, in the case of self-employed long distance lorry drivers) or where occasional business journeys outside the normal pattern are made. A reasonable level of expenses incurred in these circumstances may be deducted from business profits. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Where a business trip necessitates one or more nights away from home, reasonable accommodation costs incurred while away from home may be deducted. The cost of meals taken in conjunction with overnight accommodation may also be deducted. Where self-employed long distance lorry drivers spend the night in their cabs rather than taking overnight accommodation, the costs incurred on their meals may be deducted. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]It is important to note that only expenses actually incurred and for which receipts are available may be claimed. Receipts must be retained for production in the course of a Revenue audit of the business "[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]In the OP's case, the business doesn't by it's nature involve travelling (i.e. OP isn't a haulier or travelling salesperson, they are an online business), so only meal costs incurred while away overnight will be allowable.[/FONT]​
 
Hi Mandelbrot;

I don't often disagree with what you say here on boards as you usually give excellent advice and you may well be right on this one too, but quoting the second paragraph there;

"[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]where occasional business journeys outside the normal pattern are made"

[/FONT]
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Of course, it's arguable what 'normal pattern' means for an online business.
 
Hi Seán,

I think the word occasional is key, and allows for some discretion by a Revenue official.

The section starts by stating that meals taken while on business journeys in general aren't allowable, so this is the default position.

This allows for refusing a claim by a self-employed guy who decides to have a "working lunch" with a "potential client" at his local pub / hotel several days a week, all year round, and is claiming a few grand a year in spurious expenses to subsidise what is in reality a lifestyle choice.

The likelihood in practice is that if the level of the expense claimed isn't very high (because such meals are occasional!) then an auditor will have better things to do with their time than arguing the toss over a couple of hundred quid.
 
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