Ugandan Aid-A Fool and their Money..

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Knuttell

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The government has suspended all Irish Aid payments to Uganda after discovering that €4 million of taxpayer money was lodged to an unauthorised account.

The Foreign Affairs Minister Eamon Gilmore has sent an audit team from Ireland to the capital Kampala to try and secure the return of the funds.

Ireland gives around €33 million each year towards aid projects in Uganda.

Around half of that is administered by the Ugandan government.
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We are a Country that is in an IMF bailout with all that this implies.

Borrowing money to throw at a corrupt Govt who buy tanks and planes while their citizens starve is utter nonsense of the highest order,this needs to stop immediately.

There was a woman on the news this evening from some Charity who kept repeating that it was..

"regrettable and that controls need to be put in place to stop this happening again"
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What planet are these people on,its no use talking about controls when the horse is four counties over.It should be patently obvious to a 4 year old that when you give this money to a corrupt leadership that it will go missing.

We cannot afford this,I have no problem restarting foreign aid when we are in a position to afford it but what we are doing is the equivalent of someone who is on the dole wondering why they haven't a proverbial pot and their kids are eating the cardboard of an empty cornflakes box when they are paying a €60 pm DD to some bogus charity.
 
only the 4m mislaid !!!! I'd say we're lucky if even 4m of it annually was going to good use.
Stop this madness now
 
"I thought it was bad when I had no toes until I saw somebody who had no legs"

OK, our money should not be misappropriated by any foreign government.

However, I know we are badly off, but we are suffering nothing like the poor in such countries. I believe our foreign aid should continue provided it is used properly.
 
The thing that struck my most the first time I walked through a shanty town was the smell. If hopelessness had a smell that would be it. It’s kind of a blend of excrement, decay and unwashed body all mixed in together. There’s really nothing else like it.
When we talk about poverty in Ireland we are talking about first-world poverty. Third world poverty is a different thing altogether. It’s as different as the difference between a cold and the bubonic plague. I’m not down-playing the hardship and, more importantly, the depressing sense of hopelessness that unemployment and poverty leaves you with in Ireland but absolute poverty is a different thing. It is literally life and death.

Uganda has had a difficult past, both during the colonial era and since then with nearly ten years of rule by Idi Amin during which time he killed around 300’000 of his own people, a war with Tanzania (which resulted in his overthrow). He also expelled and Asians from the country which meant that the merchant classes and the public administrators were all expelled leaving the country without the ability to run itself.
They have to contend with neighbours like the Congo (the intimate failed state and the country which is just coming out of the biggest war since the Second World War) and the LRA (Lord’s Resistance Army) who are the poster-boys for child solders, kidnapping them and forcing them to fight from as young as 5 or 6 and using girls the same age for sex.
They have problems, third world problems. They have corruption and external and internal forces that seek to undermine the thin layer of government they have built. They also have fundamentalist Christian groups from the USA peddling their extremist brand of crazy which is also undermining civil authority and has resulted in disgusting and extreme homophobic laws.

The Irish government aid programme to Uganda is excellent; it is smart and targeted and audited and controlled. It concentrates on alleviating poverty traps rather than the symptoms of those poverty traps. The fact that this fraud has even come to light that this money went missing says a lot about the level of control on both sides.

This may be sexist but the main change I’d make to how aid is distributed is I would only give it to women in developing countries. I’d have women in charge of how it is allocated and I’d only give it to women on the ground. There would still be corruption but there would be far less.

If we are to address theft of Irish taxpayers money I’d start with the Irish welfare recipients and Irish employees of the HSE and semi-state companies. I think there’s a good bit more than €4 million to save there.
 
Sorry but this is a quick post....

Honest question...... is Uganda a country which deserves our aid? I understand why we send aid to countries who experience famine conditions. Uganda, in my understanding, is not one. I witnessed some but not an overwhelming amount of extreme poverty there.

Purple, as you stated, the problems in Uganda are problems of corruption and governance which are the legacy of Idi Amin. How does irish aid directly tackle these problems?

Also, in relation to your point regarding giving the money to women, I understand why you said that but firstly, there are very women in positions of authority so how would this work?
 
Purple said:
....The Irish government aid programme to Uganda is excellent; it is smart and targeted and audited and controlled. It concentrates on alleviating poverty traps rather than the symptoms of those poverty traps. The fact that this fraud has even come to light that this money went missing says a lot about the level of control on both sides....
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Fair enough, I'm sure it funds some terrific projects over there. But by the Irish taxpayer funding and 'concentrating' on lifting people out of poverty in Uganda, it allows the govt there to spend on other non-basic items such as fighter jets from Russia:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...o-finance-fighter-jets-in-uganda-2851161.html
 
Newbie! said:
Sorry but this is a quick post....

Honest question...... is Uganda a country which deserves our aid? I understand why we send aid to countries who experience famine conditions. Uganda, in my understanding, is not one. I witnessed some but not an overwhelming amount of extreme poverty there.

Purple, as you stated, the problems in Uganda are problems of corruption and governance which are the legacy of Idi Amin. How does irish aid directly tackle these problems?

Also, in relation to your point regarding giving the money to women, I understand why you said that but firstly, there are very women in positions of authority so how would this work?
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Poverty in Africa cannot be looked at on a country by country basis alone. In order to lift people out of poverty the most important factors are education, infrastructure, trade barriers, and the openness of the economy. Democracy has no real impact on poverty levels in developing countries and is largely irrelevant in the short to medium term.
There’s no point in developing good road infrastructure in Uganda if the roads through Kenya to the ports are not in place. There’s no point in developing agri-businesses if Uganda’s neighbours are not able to buy their exports. In order for land-locked or nearly land-locked countries to develop their neighbours have to be able to facilitate their access to international markets. In order for them to trade they have to have someone to trade with.
Irish aid helps train public servants in Uganda. This is an absolutely critical task if a state is to function property. It also helps develop small businesses and infrastructure. I’d rather see this than famine relief as it addresses root causes rather than symptoms.
 
Delboy said:
Fair enough, I'm sure it funds some terrific projects over there. But by the Irish taxpayer funding and 'concentrating' on lifting people out of poverty in Uganda, it allows the govt there to spend on other non-basic items such as fighter jets from Russia:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...o-finance-fighter-jets-in-uganda-2851161.html
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Should the EU cut the money it gives us for welfare payment because our government does stupid things?

I don't think anyone will try to justify that but there's no reason to believe that the money would have been spent on the projects we fund if it wasn't spent on jets.

We should also remember that most countries in the world don’t have the luxury of cowering behind the apron strings of their neighbours military like we do. Military spending in Uganda is high and should be high; it's got some nasty neighbours.
 
truthseeker said:
It still makes no sense for us to be borrowing money to send to foreign aid.
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We are borrowing money for all sorts of things. We are also subsidising our agricultural products and have punitive trade barriers in place that dwarf any aid we give to the poorest people in the world. The Common Agriculture Policy and US and EU trade barriers kill more people every year that all of the conflicts and wars Western Powers engage in and support. We have helped to create and are now sustaining the conditions that keep the poorest people in the world where they are. We are the beneficiaries of these gross injustices.
We have a moral duty to stop doing what we are doing but we ignore that duty and now we are proposing to stop throwing a few crumbs their way.
 
Wishes said:
Come on guys, I very much doubt this is a first . . .
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So what?
One of the reasons we need to give aid is to help build the civil and judicial infrastructure. Without that waste and corruption are a given. Nobody expects that there won't be some corruption. Do you think the EU should have stopped giving us aid when all of the corruption here was exposed? Do you think the EU and IMF should stop giving us aid now because of the waste and corruption that we still have?
Should we stop giving children’s allowance to poor people because some of them spend it in the bookies and on alcohol or should we try to make sure that it’s correctly targeted and to minimise the waste?
 
Purple said:
Military spending in Uganda is high and should be high; it's got some nasty neighbours.
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If they have millions to send on tanks,fighter jets and armies then they have enough to spend on feeding their starving people.

I never had a problem with foreign aid,I felt it was the obligation of wealthier Countries to provide for those less fortunate.

We are however in a compete mess financially,Ireland is a bankrupted State,there is no need to elaborate on a site like this how bad most of us are struggling,how much we are in hock for,all services etc cut to the bone,I know none of us are starving but its time we withdraw from foreign aid and leave it to bigger,wealthier,solvent Countries we just do not have the money for it at the moment

We need to cut our cloth accordingly and stop firing money around like snuff at a wake especially when its been fired directly and incredibly into the bank accounts of one of the most corrupt Govts in the World.
 
Knuttell said:
If they have millions to send on tanks,fighter jets and armies then they have enough to spend on feeding their starving people.

I never had a problem with foreign aid,I felt it was the obligation of wealthier Countries to provide for those less fortunate.

We are however in a compete mess financially,Ireland is a bankrupted State,there is no need to elaborate on a site like this how bad most of us are struggling,how much we are in hock for,all services etc cut to the bone,I know none of us are starving but its time we withdraw from foreign aid and leave it to bigger,wealthier,solvent Countries we just do not have the money for it at the moment

We need to cut our cloth accordingly and stop firing money around like snuff at a wake especially when its been fired directly and incredibly into the bank accounts of one of the most corrupt Govts in the World.
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Hunger in Uganda isn’t caused by lack of money, it’s caused by a lack of the rule of law. Uganda is in a region that has some of the most fertile land in the world that’s why Rwanda, it’s neighbour, can feed 8 million people even though it’s only the size of Munster. Uganda also neighbours Congo, a failed state and probably the closest thing to hell on Earth you’ll find. If you want to sort things out in Congo you have to make sure that Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania and Kenya and all stable and are on-board with the same plan. Uganda has a large, well disciplined and well trained army. Rwanda is lead by Paul Kagame, a man that General Norman Schwarzkopf described as the greatest practitioner of manoeuvre warfare of the modern age. It’s important to regional stability that both countries are stable and peaceful. It’s critical to Congo that they are. The fact that the recent problems in Congo go back to the Rwandan genocide and the deplorable way in which the UN dealt with it and, more particularly, its aftermath, should also inform our decisions.
Irish aid is directed to projects that build civil and social infrastructure. It is one of our national success stories. No one in Ireland is starving due to our economic woes but plenty of people in sub-Saharan Africa are starving due to the many and complex problems that they face. Many of those problems are caused by policies we support and champion in the EU and at World Trade Agreement talks.
Uganda is corrupt by Western standards but not by African standards. Rwanda is the stand-out country in the region for minimal corruption but Uganda is better than most of the rest.
 
Purple said:
Hunger in Uganda isn’t caused by lack of money, it’s caused by a lack of the rule of law.
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I have to agree with Knuttell that Ireland needs to get back on its feet before we try to lift other countries out of poverty.

The reasons behind the poverty must also be looked at - for example, some of the funds being channelled to the Ugandan Government should be invested in an effective birth control programme. Uganda's population, as with most other African countries, is rising too rapidly and these countries then look to the west to feed their starving masses.

Unfortunately, in most of Africa a woman must prove her fertility and men see having lots of children as a statement of their virility. Tribal issues also come into it where one tribe may feel if they don't have enough children, they will be outnumbered by a neighbouring tribe.

Difficult cultural issues to overcome, but they should be tackled.
 
There are poster campaigns in Uganda to promote the use of condoms due to the spread of HIV/AIDS.
The main resistance to this is from fundamentalist Christians, financed by parent Churches in the USA and Europe.

Population growth is a symptom of poverty, lack of a legal structure that allows a lack of security around property rights which means human capital is more valuable economically than it should be and the lack of a social safety net i.e. old age pension which mean that people need lots of children to look after them when they are elderly.
 
at the end of the day, we're borrowing near 1bn a year at x interest rates...and then passing it on to places such as Uganda for aid purposes.

It...makes....no....sense
 
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