Type of Property to Purchase

[laura28]

Can I start at the outset by apologizing if this is not the correct place for this query.

We are hoping to buy a house next year. We are a family of 4 currently living in a 2 bed apartment, dying to have a proper home and some space. We have been having a primarily look around at some homes for sale in the area we want and are having trouble reaching an agreement.. all opinions and advice welcome!

There a lot of new builds for sale in this area- mainly "townhouses" (terraced houses). Tiny back garden, no front garden (we would have 2 cars parked literally at the sitting room window), estates that have room for more builds, unknown current neighbours/feel of the estate. The inside of the homes are amazing - large bedrooms, super well insulated, 3/4 bathrooms, built in wardrobes, new kitchens - you name it.

OR

We have second hand houses, think 1960's/70's builds, poor energy rating, slightly less internal square footage but larger gardens front & rear, ugly (for want of a better word) interiors, 1 bathroom, great location, same town but fully established estate, no room for further development etc.

Which would you go for? New houses are approx. €30k more expensive but literally turn key ready to move in finished product. The older house are absolutely liveable but far from the "dream" home I have ever pictured. It would be pricey to upgrade - insulate as well as the cosmetic work. Most houses sold in this estate have been practically gutted - walls knocked etc & I have heard budgets of €100k being mentioned.....

How can we decide on this? Myself and OH are at opposite ends view point wise!

 

[PGF2016]

New houses will probably require carpets/ flooring / curtains etc. Don't forget the cost of those.

What is wrong with cars parked at front windows? Do kids need both a front and back garden? Also, less maintenance with only one garden.

Terraced houses can be a pain if you have kids bikes in a shed in the back garden. They'll have to be dragged through the house every time they're used as there's no side entrance.

 

[PGF2016]

This is an example of the paradox of choice. More options usually leads to indecision and less happiness.

 

[laura28]

Thanks PGF2016. I believe the terraced houses/townhouses have a covered alley to the back garden for bins & bikes etc. The cars parked at the window is literally right at the window - no view, car bonnet directly under the window.
The new houses have flooring included, although not curtains.

I know it's a ridiculous type query but I'm trying to get some perspectives outside our own!

 

[JPSaltee]

We were faced with the same dilemia & decided on the older established area- it came down to where would we be happier coming home to at the end of the working day. We are currently bidding but currently without sucess so might still end up in the alternitive!

 

[Cait]

Hi Laura

We were in a similar years ago at this point, we sold our corporation style two bed (in Dublin ) thinking we would get something within 6 months and were lucky to have the inlaws to bunk in with (two kids aswell) . We spent one year looking at fixer uppers in what was regarded as an established area. New houses were a no-no , mainly because their weren't any but also because when some did come up they were very pricey. All the older houses we looked at were all in very poor condition , but amazingly the asking price would often not be that far off from a house in better condition, or with an extension. We had a decent budget, but when we did a finger in the air cost of what it would take to bring the houses to a modern standard we didn't think it was worth the money. Plus on two occasions we were used for price discovery by vendors, ie we were the winning bid, and then then pulled the sale only to sell within the family after.. To be honest the whole bidding process got to us after a while . One of us more than the other was set on the fixer upper, but at that stage older houses were all that was on offer. Some new build townhouse type places came up exactly near the location we were interested in, They were massive 4 beds and build to a high spec . I had no intention of buying because it was in an area with apartments and didn't have much of a community feel to it. But we went to have a look, just for a nose. Eventually after much stress and soul searching we decided to go for the new build and are snagging at present (nearly a year after looking at it initially as we went for a house in a later phase). The particular house we got ticks most of the boxes of what we wanted. I was in the new house on friday and Im confident we have made the right decision. Its so warm , everything is brand new, plus there are even things done which I would never have even thought of if we were doing a renovation.
I was a bit sad to think I won't live is a leafy quite street with lovely back garden where the kids can head out and play safely, but then I woke up and realized I wont have time to keep my massive garden manicured, my children will never play anywhere unsupervised (they are older now and even in my own parents house in the country with its acres of space they still have to be supervised to some degree . We could have had all that, but for us it was not worth the stress, and because my children are a bit older I though it would hard for them if we moved into a place that needed work. In saying that we are 2 years with the inlaws, which brings its own challenges.
Really in your case you need to do the for and against list and maybe give it an order of preference. I will say one thing though, for me Terrace was a big no-no and we were lucky we were able to get an end of terrace type. So you probably need to order the preferences something like
Location
No of Bedrooms
Detatched/terrace/end of
Garage
Size of Garden
Orientation of the house
Parking
Management fee
Price


In your case perhaps it would be a better investment to spend the money on fixing up a house , and it you can afford it comfortably and dont mind the idea of a renovation you should go for that option . But you really want to know and love the area to do that I think.
If you have any questions let me know. Circumstances are not exactly the same, but I might be able to give some info on our experience....even though I have not moved yet

 

[laura28]

Thanks for your reply Cait - it's very helpful & certainly sounds very similar to our situation at present.
I suppose to clarify - kids are 5 & 3 so definitely supervision needed for playing & i'm under no illusion that they would play happily in a back garden - they would need other kids and supervision for the foreseeable.
In our case my husband is much keener on a do-er-upper. I am not. We both work full time, have no relatives close by so it sounds like a nightmare to me. I guess where I am coming from is a bigger garden in an established estate has a little more space. The new builds we have seen have houses literally on top of each other - gardens over looked from all sides and just so far from the forever home I envisaged! But how important really is that?
As a family with small kids and working full time - a walk in house best suits our needs and like you am very reluctant to engage in a property war, bidding etc. There's no sign of a compromise house coming on the market any time soon. I'm afraid we are being too fussy, will miss our opportunity and will be stuck in a 2 bed apartment with 2 kids forever

 

[michaelm]

Which would you go for?

In your situation I would avoid terraced houses and, if possible, new estates. A completed, established estate that has been taken over by the Council is preferable. You need side access to your back garden and ideally a driveway that will take two cars. I wouldn't worry about decor, energy rating or comparative size of rooms. You could do a lot with €30k to brighten the place up. I'd be looking for the best second-hand house I would find in the right location.

 

[Bronte]

I wouldn't touch new houses. Most I've seen look great superficially, shiny new kitchen, floors and tiling but badly built, tiny spaces, chimney breast in the middle of a wall where the double bed should go, a door that will take a wheelchair and bathroom too but no way wheelchair would make it down the corridor, terrible electric heating, narrow steep stairs, no gardens, parking a nightmare, no way you can open the wardrobe in you put in your standard double bed. No storage. No separate utility for the washing machine. Kids bikes tied to railings. No shed for coal.

Here's a trick they use too, they put in 'small' double beds to falsify the feeling of space. Go measure.

And stay away from terraced housing (bins and kids bikes and lawnmowers is why)

Also older houses have attics that are generally convertable if you expand your family.

You can always put in a kitchen one year. Do the windows another. Put in an extra bathroom etc.

(And I see Michaelm's post with which I totally agree)

 

[Monbretia]

I would really avoid electric heating if going for a new build.

I would also be checking if the walls are paper thin and you can hear the neighbours going about their business, although you may already have had this in an apartment and be used to it, it used to drive me mad when I rented and that was years ago with fairly solid walls!

 

[pinkie123]

I wouldn't touch new houses. Most I've seen look great superficially, shiny new kitchen, floors and tiling but badly built, tiny spaces, chimney breast in the middle of a wall where the double bed should go, a door that will take a wheelchair and bathroom too but no way wheelchair would make it down the corridor, terrible electric heating, narrow steep stairs, no gardens, parking a nightmare, no way you can open the wardrobe in you put in your standard double bed. No storage. No separate utility for the washing machine. Kids bikes tied to railings. No shed for coal.

Here's a trick they use too, they put in 'small' double beds to falsify the feeling of space. Go measure.

And stay away from terraced housing (bins and kids bikes and lawnmowers is why)

Also older houses have attics that are generally convertable if you expand your family.

You can always put in a kitchen one year. Do the windows another. Put in an extra bathroom etc.

(And I see Michaelm's post with which I totally agree)

That is an unreal generalisation! Have you been in every new house built in Ireland. What a sweeping statement.
I live in a new build and this is definitely not the case. I don't know of any new houses with electric heating. I have 8 foot ceilings, huge rooms, GFCH (which I hardly use as house so well insulated). And guess what there is a back garden that is not overlooked on all sides. I don't hear my neighbours. I don't think I am the exception either.

I wouldn't move into a 'doer upper' if I didn't have the money to do it all in one go. If left on the long finger things will never be done. Also when paying a mortgage etc. there is very little left over to spend on renovations. Also where are you going to live when the renovations are being done.

Also older houses are not necessarily better built. My parents live in the typical leafy well managed established housing estate, semi d, and you can practically hear the neighbours breathe.

 

[moneybox]

Bronte may have a point, I read a statistic sometime back that many houses built at speed throughout boom time Ireland lacked sufficient insulation and sound proofing and will have to be upgraded in future years.

 

[PGF2016]

Bronte may have a point, I read a statistic sometime back that many houses built at speed throughout boom time Ireland lacked sufficient insulation and sound proofing and will have to be upgraded in future years.

But is a boom time Ireland house equivalent to a new house?

OP you'll need to judge each house on its merits. Some new builds are excellent. Some are not. Same with old houses.

 

[pinkie123]

Bronte may have a point, I read a statistic sometime back that many houses built at speed throughout boom time Ireland lacked sufficient insulation and sound proofing and will have to be upgraded in future years.

Well if you read it somewhere then it must be true. Why listen to someone who actually lives in one of these houses.
In any case, OP is asking about a brand new build, i.e. 2016 rather than one built in the boom. I think you and Bronte have missed the point here. She is not asking about a house built in the boom.

 

[Bronte]

Well if you read it somewhere then it must be true. Why listen to someone who actually lives in one of these houses.
In any case, OP is asking about a brand new build, i.e. 2016 rather than one built in the boom. I think you and Bronte have missed the point here. She is not asking about a house built in the boom.

If you reread what I posted I mentioned the word 'most' not all. I have seen houses all over Ireland. The new build I saw in the last two years had the chimney breast in the middle of the wall, the steep stairs, the front door wheelchair friendly, ditto the downstairs toilet but you couldn't get from the front door to the toilet.

I'm only warning the OP on what to look out for. Of course there will be magnificently built houses.

You've now reminded me of the ones where the builder was pumping out water and had those dehumidfiers on at full blast.

Also I remember that homebond didn't cover pyrite etc etc etc. Just buyer beware.

 

[Bronte]

Bronte may have a point, I read a statistic sometime back that many houses built at speed throughout boom time Ireland lacked sufficient insulation and sound proofing and will have to be upgraded in future years.

The estate built at the back of my old home had paint peeling and some kind of clapboard stuff coming off after two years. I've heard loads of complaints about sound proofing here on AAM. Not sure about the insulaation, but if they were cutting corners that will be where they do it. And no engineer will look behind walls. Ask the priory hall victims. I also know excellent builders. My brother being one of them. My sister built an excellent home too. But it cost a lot.

 

[PGF2016]

Also I remember that homebond didn't cover pyrite etc etc etc. Just buyer beware.

In case the OP isn't aware legislation has been brought in to prevent against new houses having pyrite issues. The infill used must now be certified as having no pyrite. The legislation was brought in after the boom unfortunately. Google will tell you the exact year it was enacted.

 

[moneybox]

Well if you read it somewhere then it must be true. Why listen to someone who actually lives in one of these houses.
In any case, OP is asking about a brand new build, i.e. 2016 rather than one built in the boom. I think you and Bronte have missed the point here. She is not asking about a house built in the boom.

As far as I am aware very few houses have been built since the boom times hense the current shortage. I would like to know what percentage of the current housing stock went up in that building frenzy. Of course there were excellent estates where no corners had been cut and some wonderfully built one off houses, however, the majority were built very quickly and many corners cut. Ask any builder you know what it was like working in building sites at that time. Going forward it's doubtful we will ever see anything like it again.

 

[Cait]

Hi Laura

Really you are still in the early stages, and your children are very young, plus you have not even sold your own place (if you intend to), so its possible a house is slightly better condition with not as much work to do may come up in the older estate you are interested in, or every so often something else comes along that catches your eye, but is it possible for you to expand your search a little? This is obvious advice, but I would say to you pay a bit more for something if the condition is better, because (depending on the location) you generally will never get back in value what you have put in, however places like that will be hotly contested. If you do put on fancy extensions or do the Attic , thats all your cash gone.. never to be seen again. This does not matter of course if you can afford it and you are very happy with the location and the house is big enough for your needs. We stuck very rigidly to a particular area because of school and family and that really limited us to ..total kips (in my opinion or quite nicely done houses that were just too small. Now I have decided I'm not too fussed about the forever home and Im delighted with the new build. It may seem short sighted, but I just want a comfortable home that suits our needs now. In my old house I had neither nice interior or exterior and we ended up 10 years there (no need to tell you why). We had it comfortable and livable, but it was just cold and dark, and out the back we only had a little yard, so the thoughts of having another while in a house that was not modernized .. and having to deal with contractors and engineers didn't appeal.. I'd be middle aged before I had the house anyway close to the way I wanted it . But for you and I'd guess you are younger than me, because you are in a presumably modern apartment, maybe you wouldn't mind a house what had to be renovated . As other posters have mentioned you could do it bit by bit, or move in for a while and then decide what needs to be done after a year or so.
Some of the other posters have mentioned how awful some new build are (were). Im sure this is true in some cases, but from what I have seen the quality of new builds is much better now than it ever was....but you pay a premium , and yes they squash them in. For me I think if my option was a terrace or the old one to fix up, I would go for the old one . Probably seems to contradict what I have said above, and in our new place there are Terrace houses which are very nice, huge houses, and actually some of them have slightly bigger gardens that ours, but its the thing of bringing everything through the house and being overlooked that I'd prefer not to have.

 

[laura28]

Thanks so much for all the replies everyone! I didn't get to log on yesterday and really appreciate all the people who have taken time out to get back to me.

I guess the advice from everyone is correct but it has definitely helped focus me. We are currently in a large 2 bed apartment. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. We have both a boy and girl so obviously room sharing can't go on for much longer. However, I have been pleasantly surprised how long we have lasted, in a situation that gets a reaction of horror from most people "you live in an apartment with 2 kids...!!!"

I think our solution will probably need to be a compromise. We want a forever home and have narrowed down a couple of areas that suit for a variety of reasons. I am almost 100% decided against a new built town house/terraced house for a number of reasons, most outlined above. Very small living space down stairs, tiny garden, in general hugely over looked and parking issues, very steep staircases and bedroom a floor above the kids which I'm not sure is a great/practical idea, sound proofing issues and some more.

Similarly I don't want a house with a massive amount of work. I think we will have to sit tight and hope the right home comes on the market in our price range. We have also not ruled out new builds (as in currently being built) as I guess these might be easier than bidding etc...