Two out of every four tradespeople are dodgy

brian.mobile

Registered User
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347
I dunno, but I have hired four tradespeople lately

1) tiler - shocking, mates referral and all
2) Painter - slapstick-like, another referral, didnt turn up half the time
3) Another tiler - referral again, amazing job
4) Patio slab layer - amazing job, referral

*I'm CONFUSED*

I dunno, but I remember the days when teh ratio was a bit higher.

SM

PS: PI know I need a bigger study to get more accurate results, but you get my drift???
 
brian.mobile said:
1) tiler - shocking, mates referral and all
2) Painter - slapstick-like, another referral, didnt turn up half the time
What did you mates have to say about your experiences with their recommended tradespeople?

Did you make sure to withold (full) payment until a proper job was done in each case?
 
Tiling and painting are "trades" that many unqualified people feel they can take a shot at. Then again many trained painters and tilers are crap. I agree with the above - just don't pay them if they haven't delivered the quality you expected.
 
Purely on plumbers, my experience would be 3 out of 4 are dodgy. Stuff including not showing up at all and not showing up on time.

Best one was the plumber arriving to do the work, taking out all the tools and ripping out old bathroom fittings in 10mins and then leaving "for another quick job" and then never coming back.
 
I think you were extremely lucky to have a 50% success rate. From bitter experience on an extension build I have found all these so called 'trades' (how do you even know they are qualified/skilled) to be major rip-off merchants. Usual form is to arrive, do an inspection, saying how wonderful they are, identify what they consider to be poor workmanship somewhere in your house, and then conclude there comments by saying 'there are a lot of cowboys out there.' The so-called skills are little more than something you could master on a three day DIY course. Running wires or pipes around a house is not rocket science, nor indeed is plastering. And then you get the price for the job.....

Rant over.
 
I have dealt with one or two terrible tradesmen who, basically, were crooks. I have also dealt with several excellent tradesmen, who took more care in their work than their very reasonable charges could possibly compensate for. It only takes one crook to tarnish the name of all tradesmen, and it takes a very large number of quality tradesmen to restore that good name i.e. do not write off tradesmen as a whole based on bad experiences with some individuals.

Incidentally, I have also dealt with "professional" people in my day job who were very much as incompetent and devious as the worst tradesmen I have dealt with. However, for some reason, people seem less inclined to tar non-trade professions with the one brush based purely on a relatively small number of bad experiences. There are dodgy individuals in all professions.
 
askew70 said:
I have dealt with one or two terrible tradesmen who, basically, were crooks. I have also dealt with several excellent tradesmen, who took more care in their work than their very reasonable charges could possibly compensate for. It only takes one crook to tarnish the name of all tradesmen, and it takes a very large number of quality tradesmen to restore that good name i.e. do not write off tradesmen as a whole based on bad experiences with some individuals.

Incidentally, I have also dealt with "professional" people in my day job who were very much as incompetent and devious as the worst tradesmen I have dealt with. However, for some reason, people seem less inclined to tar non-trade professions with the one brush based purely on a relatively small number of bad experiences. There are dodgy individuals in all professions.

The 'one apple spoiling the bunch' thing doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid. True, tarring everyone with the same brush is wrong, and like you I have come across several excellent tradesmen. I have also come across terrible, devious tradesmen. I have also come across many excellent professionals in many fields. I have also come acorss some terrible and devious professionals.

The thing is, the ratio of dodgy tradesmen I have come across compared to total tradesmen I have come across is significantly higher than the ratio of dodgy professionals I have come across.

This does not cause me to think 'every tradesman is dodgy'. If I meet a random tradesman and a random professional, these experiences do cause me to think 'there is a significantly higher chance that this tradesman is dodgy, than the chances that this professional is dodgy'.

From this thread, and umpteen complaints from friends, family, colleagues etc, it seems that my experiences are fairly representative of tradesmen as a whole: there definitely seems to be more bad apples in this bunch than in most others (I would say all but know someone will come back and say politicians, taxi drivers or something like that, are worse).
 
OhPinchy said:
From this thread, and umpteen complaints from friends, family, colleagues etc, it seems that my experiences are fairly representative of tradesmen as a whole: there definitely seems to be more bad apples in this bunch than in most others (I would say all but know someone will come back and say politicians, taxi drivers or something like that, are worse).

I can understand you being wary of a tradesman that you don't know, I am the same myself in fact, but I believe that people are generally much more critical of tradesmen than of other professions. Maybe it is something to do with the fact that a lot of tradesmen carry out work in your home/haven and as strangers you tend to view them with some suspicion right from the start, maybe it is something to do with the fact that certain trades involve work that is highly visible and therefore more easily assessed (unlike many professions, where the service/product is a lot less tangible), maybe it is something to do with the fact that the tradesman may be carrying out work that appears on the surface to be straightforward but the details of which you view as a bit of a black art so you are wary of being charged for imaginary products/work in an effort to exploit your lack of understanding (in this sense it is similar to many other professions, in fact, which I think many people forget), etc.

Whatever the reasons, I think that many people approach tradesmen almost with the expectation that they are going to be ripped off. They have heard all of the bad stories, and have taken them as representative of all tradesmen. It doesn't help when people expect top quality work at bargain basement prices. Even a very good tradesman is likely to feel under extra pressure when faced with small potential profits, and the person paying them looking over their shoulder every few minutes. Pretty soon, expecting to be ripped off becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Personally, I don't know how the good tradesmen manage to maintain their enthusiasm for their work, and their high standards, when faced with a commonly touted view that they are most likely to be lazy, unqualified, overpaid, shysters. As for the bad tradesmen, I think that people should take every step they can to avoid an unhappy outcome from the start (such as agreeing exactly in writing what work is to be done, paying only a portion of the cost up front, etc.), and pursuing those tradesemen that do not hold up their side of the bargain (report them to the relevant organisation, take legal action against them, etc.). Unfortunately, in a lot of cases I suspect that the bad tradesmen are just left to exploit the next misfortunate customer, as previous disatisfied customers don't have the heart, or energy, or maybe even the finances, to take action against them. One dodgy individuals gets away with it again, while their industry gains another black mark.

Rather than label the majority of tradesmen as bad, it may be more beneficial to take a more proactive approach by campaigning for better regulation.
 
I think we must have been amazingly lucky as we are in the middle of a self build and so far have not had one dodgy tradesman.
We have done quite a bit of checking before hiring anyone though.....
We are currently on the final leg so all our tradespeople are in place so maybe we just got lucky.
 
I suspect that the bad tradesmen are just left to exploit the next misfortunate customer, as previous disatisfied customers don't have the heart, or energy, or maybe even the finances, to take action against them. One dodgy individuals gets away with it again, while their industry gains another black mark.

I reckon the reason there is a far higher percentage of chancers etc. in the 'trades' is that there is no accountable body to whom people can complain/seek redress. Also, I am unaware of general builders, tilers, etc. having to achieve any formal qualifications - again, I could be open to correction.

If your solicitor, accountant, doctor, or architect does a bad job/is incompetent/devious etc., you at least have the option of making a formal complaint - alright, so a lot of these professions are self regulating, but at least you can complain to someone, and sanctions may be taken.

Who on earth do I complain to if a bricklayer builds a wall badly, or a plumber causes a flood and then blames it on the 'crap washer' in a very expensive tap (as happened to me)? If there are bodies regulating these 'trades', and maybe there are, I haven't heard of them.

Perhaps if Revenue took a slightly keener interest in the huge level of tax evasion that goes on amongst the 'trades' in this country, it might drive some of the more unscrupulous practitioners out of business.
 
I know of a neighbour who got a tiler in to tile her new house and he did a very bad job and she refused to pay him so he took her to court in order to get her to pay up.
She got another tiler who had to repair/redo the crap work to testify in court that his workmanship was appaling and she did not have to pay him.
He now has a bad reputation in our area but I am sure there are many people blissfully aware of how bad a job he did and he can carry on as before.
 
What about starting thread of those tradespeople/professionals that you would recommend, with the area they work in? and maybe even one for those that you would not recommend dealing with, obviously being careful with any remakes made?

I would be happy to recommend my blocklayer, plasterer, digger man and electrician (will have to see about tiler and plumber- fingers crossed) whereas I couldnt recommend my architect to design a dog kennel!!
 
Sorry, but i think you will find as many dodgy professionals in this wonderful country of ours as you do tradespeople. Dentists, Doctors, solicitors, Architects, Phone providers, Politicians, Garages, my god the list is endless. When you do have a problem with most of these self regulated professions, who do you complain to?
 
JPSaltee said:
What about starting thread of those tradespeople/professionals that you would recommend, with the area they work in? and maybe even one for those that you would not recommend dealing with, obviously being careful with any remakes made?

I would be happy to recommend my blocklayer, plasterer, digger man and electrician (will have to see about tiler and plumber- fingers crossed) whereas I couldnt recommend my architect to design a dog kennel!!

You might find www.mytrade.ie interesting. It was set up by a guy who had trouble with tradespeople when building a new house or something. It is discussed here on boards.ie.
 
I don't think a huge amount would be achieved by such a thread.

Brian.mobile had two bad experiences with tradesmen recommended by friends. What is he supposed to do? Ignore his friends and accept the anonymous recommendations from Askaboutmoney?

Under no circumstances should invidviduals be named for shoddy jobs. This is defamatory and I am not putting my house on the line to allow some of you to get it off your chest.

Brendan
Administrator.
 
It's pointless anyway, some lads may do a great job on one house and make a balls of another, it's like any profession.
I think my solicitor is the worst on earth and he nearly cost me my house because of lazyness, my dad thinks he's the bees knees because he did a great job for him, who are you going to believe?
As Bahman says it's up to the individual to stand up for themselves if they feel they are getting conned.
 
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