to leave public service or not?

Re: to leave public service or not???

I would have thought that most people in the private sector work less than 50hrs a week and have approx days holidays.
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People starting up their own companies will easily clock up 50+ hours a week, I know I do. No guarantee of pay, never mind sick leave and pensions etc! I've taken 10 days off this year, and I work public/bank holidays. I'll be also working through Christmas.

I also know people on a salary in the private sector that will work crazy hours, especially in company busy times.

However, there's no way I'd want a job in the public sector. I'd rather stick with the beans on toast.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

aircobra19 said:
I would have thought that most people in the private sector work less than 50hrs a week and have approx days holidays.
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No one I know in a small to sized medium business that gets more than 20 days off a year. Most of them don’t get sick pay either. None of them can take career breaks and most of them work more than 50 hours a week.
I do an average of 52 hours at the moment which is the shortest my working week has been in 17 years. I have had 9 sick days in those 17 years.
I’m not trying to play the martyr, I like what I do and have a very good income. I also understand how difficult it must be to do a job that in boring and/or unrewarding and feel that you have no control over what you do.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

If you not trying to be a marytr why all the non relevent info? Congratulations on being so heathly btw. Most of the people I know who work long hours often unpaid are IT related. Everyone else I know who works long hours gets paid for them, as its usually overtime or shift work. So as a for instance, a quick seach on IT jobs in Dublin on the FAS site shows the weekly hours. While obvously you have to take some estimates with a pinch of salt at least it nots [SIZE=-1]anecdotal. [/SIZE]

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=19581_5&REQUEST=WWW_JS_VAC_SHOWJOBS&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_SELECT.HTM
http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=19581_24&REQUEST=WWW_JS_VAC_SHOWJOBS&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_SELECT.HTM
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

"I am basically completely disillusioned with my current role and would welcome a return to a fast moving environment with responsibility"

Far away hills are always greener?
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

I have worked in both public and private sectors. First private then public. When I was in public sector the hours were a lot shorter and the holidays longer than what I was used to but I found it incredibly tedious. I was on contracts and when an opportunity came up to become permanaent I turned it down and went back to private - much longer hours, much shorter holidays but rewarding. However as my responsibilities have grown - mortgage, children etc - I find myself at times yearning for the public sector. If a job came up there in the morning I would seriously consider it. The stability and the extra time to spend with my family would be very attractive.

We all think about changing our lot from time to time but you need to weigh up all you have against what you'll be gaining. From my time in the public sector I know that a lot of my former colleagues looked at the public sector with rose tinted glasses. They never seemed to take into account job seucrity or pension.

One guy was so enraptured by the thought of the business lunch which for some reason he seemed to think all people in the private sector enjoyed that he resigned from the public sector without a job lined up, eventually got a succession of low paying jobs and finally went back to the public sector utterly dissilusioned.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

Posted by Aircobra:
If you not trying to be a marytr why all the non relevent info? Congratulations on being so heathly btw. Most of the people I know who work long hours often unpaid are IT related. Everyone else I know who works long hours gets paid for them, as its usually overtime or shift work. So as a for instance, a quick seach on IT jobs in Dublin on the FAS site shows the weekly hours. While obvously you have to take some estimates with a pinch of salt at least it nots [SIZE=-1]anecdotal.[/SIZE]

Aircobra,

A lot of the companies outside Dublin only give 20 days a year hols & do not pay sick leave & have long hours, even if the employees are relatively senior. You seem to think that most people get paid more if they do over the 39 hrs.

Me: I have been working in accounts for the last no. of years in the private sector. 20 days hols p.a. No sick leave. I earn 30K p.a. I have a certain amount of work to get done. It is impossible (and I know this from former employees) to fit this into the 39 hrs a week. I work 45 hrs a week, and even then I don't really get the work completed.

I know people say the public sector is draining etc etc, However, I find in the private sector, that it is hard enough to have a life outside of work. I feel that you have to work so fast to get the work completed, that you are tired at the weekend & can't do anything nice.

I am trying to get a clerical officer job in the public sector for the past year. I know it will initially be a pay cut to 23K, but the hourly rate works out the same as what I am getting now.

Also, I have been out sick & got no pay. It is no joke when you are out sick & trying to use savings to cover a mortgage & household expenses. I think the private sector is all right when you are in the full of your health, but if anything bad happens it would be easy to lose one's home!!
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

buzybee said:
...A lot of the companies outside Dublin only give 20 days a year hols & do not pay sick leave & have long hours, even if the employees are relatively senior. You seem to think that most people get paid more if they do over the 39 hrs....
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If you look at the links I posted earlier one is the Dublin region the other is the the North West of the country. So I don't think its trait limited to "Dublin" or any other location. Its does seem to be more typical in certain types of company or industry sector.

I said "Everyone else I know". I didn't make the generalisation of "most people". Probably everyone has worked unpaid hours at some point. You don't do it unless you think you can get something out of it. If you do get some reward, you keep doing it. If you don't, you eventually realise its bad practise to work for free, and will do your utmost to avoid doing it.

From my own experience, I've moved jobs to get away from having to do unpaid and extra hours. When you have commitments outside of work you simply can't do them. So its unfair if people are put under pressure to do them. The majority of the time (in my experience) extra hours/unpaid work are a crutch for bad managment, and can be avoided through proper planning. No one minds helping out in a crunch. But if it becomes normalised to work like that, its a bigger problem and points to other issues.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

Busybee - "I am trying to get a clerical officer job in the public sector for the past year. I know it will initially be a pay cut to 23K, but the hourly rate works out the same as what I am getting now."

Can i just ask you why you think that you would initially be paid 23K as a clerical officer?


 
Re: to leave public service or not???

aircobra19 said:
The majority of the time (in my experience) extra hours/unpaid work are a crutch for bad managment, and can be avoided through proper planning. No one minds helping out in a crunch. But if it becomes normalised to work like that, its a bigger problem and points to other issues.
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I agree with you, but poor management is the norm whether in the private sector or the public. In the public sector it seems to be characterised by inertia and incompetence; in the private by frantic activity and incompetence. It's not realistic to move from one to the other in the hope of something better.

(Sorry to any managers out there - you must do better).
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

yoganmahew said:
I agree with you, but poor management is the norm whether in the private sector or the public. In the public sector it seems to be characterised by inertia and incompetence; in the private by frantic activity and incompetence. It's not realistic to move from one to the other in the hope of something better.

(Sorry to any managers out there - you must do better).
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I think if you had a bad/good manager it makes all the difference. Regardless if your in the private or public sector.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

aircobra19

I have moved around doing contract work for the past few years precisely because I am trying to escape the long hours. I think it is not bad mgt in the private sector. I think mgt are trying to get away with having less staff at work & everyone is killed out. Then if you can't keep up with the work they let you go, and get someone else in, who can work faster.

You said people do not work long hours unless they are getting something out of it. In my experience, people work long hours if they want to keep their jobs. I have seen it that people are 'let go' from work if they are not able to get through lots of work. It is very difficult to get lots of work done in the 39 hrs a week, hence the long hours.

Suse,

Most Clerical Officer jobs start people on 23K even if they have years of experience. Sometimes you could apply to HR & ask for a higher salary based on your experience. However, they will still only start you on the 2nd or 3 rd point of the scale, so you will only get 1k extra. However, if you stay there for 10 yrs, you will get up to about 35K p.a. Not bad for a 35 hr week.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

If you have constant staff turnover and people are working long hours as a matter of routine there IS a problem. Especailly if the work isn't getting done. Its up to management to sort it out. Manage the process. They don't because getting people to work more hours for less seem like a way to spend less. But in the long run its bad practise and leads to other problems.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

But long hours where staff is getting paid for it, there is a low staff turnover and the work is being done may well be good practise. It may be the factor that allows the business to survive and thrive.
I know it’s a cliché but for a business your employees are your biggest asset so treating them badly, or to but it another way; getting a bad return on your investment in them, is bad business. If people are treated well and paid for what they do, and allowances are made when they are going through a bad patch in their personal lives, then they are much more likely to be loyal and hard working.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

You can't burn a candle at both ends and expect it to last.

If you're that candle, take stock.

Most employers/managers are happy to take a few hours/days from staff. But its a rare one that lets you have the same time back when you need it.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

aircobra19 said:
You can't burn a candle at both ends and expect it to last.
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Working a 10 hour day is hardly "burning the candle at both ends"!
Very few people I know only work 39 hours a week, be they public or private sector. Try being a junior doctor working every third night on call (in other words working through the night or 36 hours without rest) for years at a time. To be honest I think I have it handy.

aircobra19 said:
Most employers/managers are happy to take a few hours/days from staff. But its a rare one that lets you have the same time back when you need it.
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What do you base that sweeping statement on?
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

Purple said:
I also understand how difficult it must be to do a job that in boring and/or unrewarding and feel that you have no control over what you do.
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Just for the record, not all public sector jobs fit this description.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

In my experience where there is a union, the working time act is usually respected. No one should be working more than 48 hours in a week.
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

two options: move department - the culture/work is different in every dept - my dept is great..

also, do you KNOW how lucky you are to be able to take two 5 year career breaks and walk straight back into the same level of pay?

big world out there!

:)
 
Re: to leave public service or not???

Purple said:
Working a 10 hour day is hardly "burning the candle at both ends"!
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Why a 10hr day. Why not 15 or 20? I was talking in general about working beyond normal hours as routine. In some jobs, projects I've worked on working through the night is pretty common to meet deadlines.

Purple said:
Very few people I know only work 39 hours a week, be they public or private sector. Try being a junior doctor working every third night on call (in other words working through the night or 36 hours without rest) for years at a time. To be honest I think I have it handy.
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Well you see the working hours advertised for jobs on the FAS site. They can't all be fiction. Doctors are a very specific case. I don't think its right myself. The potential for error is too great, and they may kill someone. On the flip side for the doctor they'll reap the rewards later in their career.

Obviously some people are being well paid for their overtime.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10007451.shtml

Purple said:
What do you base that sweeping statement on?
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Many, many years of hard learnt experience.
 
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