Tenants won't allow viewings

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dodo

Registered User
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Tenants given 4 months notice couple of weeks back and are not happy. So they won't allow estate agent to show viewings of the house so pointless putting it up for sale, as is their right .
Just wondering anyone had similar situation and can advise if they has to wait the full notice period.
Also is there anything i need to do in the meantime to avoid any issue on day they due to move out. Eg if they have no place to go etc. I do have empathy them.
 
dodo said:
Also is there anything i need to do in the meantime to avoid any issue on day they due to move out.
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Offer them a month's rent as a rebate if they facilitate viewings. It's peanuts in the scheme of a house sale.


dodo said:
I do have empathy them.
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It's an awful situation as the rental market is so tight at the moment. This is a problem money can help to solve, and if they facilitate viewings you could also offer a month's rebate if they vacate promptly.


You will be down thousands if not tens of thousands of they overhold and go to the RTB to string it out. Maybe they know this, maybe they don't, but in your shoes I'd try to secure their early cooperation as it is far better than the alternative.
 
I must say that I find the idea of paying tenants extra money to allow anything is just going to make the situation worse.

Once its known that the practice is common more and more will be demanding more and more " kickbacks ".

I would presume that the extra payments aren't tax deductible for the landlord and might be taxable income for the tenant?

This is essentially extortion by tenants and I thought extortion was illegal.
I understand why people are doing it ,but wouldn't it be similar to issue notice to quit and then sell the property?
 
In the OP’s shoes, I would just wait until the tenants are gone and the property is well presented before starting viewings.

Viewing a property with tenants present would put me right off as a potential purchaser.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
I would presume that the extra payments aren't tax deductible for the landlord and might be taxable income for the tenant?
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It's not so much a payment to the tenants as a refund of rent, thus reducing the income that would be declared.

The tenants are not obliged to facilitate viewings and their explicit permission is required to enter the property, so this might be the best solution for all concerned, particularly where the tenants didn't chose to leave.
 
Leo said:
It's not so much a payment to the tenants as a refund of rent, thus reducing the income that would be declared.

The tenants are not obliged to facilitate viewings and their explicit permission is required to enter the property, so this might be the best solution for all concerned, particularly where the tenants didn't chose to leave.
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If they are not obliged to facilitate viewings then, by facilitating them and getting money or cost rebates would I would think be income?
They are providing a service.

From a landlord point of view the rent contract will stipulate what rent is to be paid , if they simply returned 11 months and reduced their taxable income without receipts how would the landlord explain this ?

And Revenue are very specific on what is allowed as expenses against rental income.

There is still no guarantee that the tenants in the above situation will leave if the house is sold, notice to quit is probably the best way to deal with this and other legal remedies.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
From a landlord point of view the rent contract will stipulate what rent is to be paid , if they simply returned 11 months and reduced their taxable income without receipts how would the landlord explain this ?
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Exactly as they explain income today, and the same way you would complete your returns if the tenant didn't pay all rent due. You don't pay tax on the rent as stated in the contract, you pay tax on rent received. Whatever is stated in the contract doesn't come into it.

In terms of taxation, a landlord refunding some rent paid is just the same as another business offering a discount. The net is what Revenue care about.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
This is essentially extortion by tenants and I thought extortion was illegal.
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Are the tenants not paying for the exclusive and private use of the property?

Can I visit your home today with my friends and have a look around, including your bedroom? or would that put you out in some way?

There is also of course the added insult that you're effectively being asked to put yourself out so that you can help the landlord replace you which you didn't want to happen in the first place. It's like being fired from your job but also asked to work unpaid overtime to help induct your replacement.
 
DazedInPontoon said:
Are the tenants not paying for the exclusive and private use of the property?

Can I visit your home today with my friends and have a look around, including your bedroom? or would that put you out in some way?

There is also of course the added insult that you're effectively being asked to put yourself out so that you can help the landlord replace you which you didn't want to happen in the first place. It's like being fired from your job but also asked to work unpaid overtime to help induct your replacement.
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They aren't obliged to allow viewers in, I understand that , but getting effectively paid for this is income.

I'm totally against both scenarios, viewers being allowed in, and landlords paying kickbacks to facilitate it.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
They aren't obliged to allow viewers in, I understand that , but getting effectively paid for this is income.
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Who cares, just give them a discount on the months rent. I don't think revenue are going to have a team of 10 detectives on the case over a trivial amount. Why even think about that?

I agree it's probably just better if the landlord waits until they're gone, but if they're really in a hurry it's something to consider.
 
DazedInPontoon said:
Who cares, just give them a discount on the months rent. I don't think revenue are going to have a team of 10 detectives on the case over a trivial amount. Why even think about that?

I agree it's probably just better if the landlord waits until they're gone, but if they're really in a hurry it's something to consider.
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Perhaps Revenue won't be concerned with a few cases, but if it becomes normal practice they might develop a different view.

And it's just example of correct taxation not being paid, people might what to shrug their shoulders and look the other way but I think people should pay the taxes that they are meant to pay.
 
Leo said:
But they are not meant to pay tax on discounted revenue.

You might not like the practice, but that doesn't mean it is a violation.
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Giving a discount so the tenants allow viewings, is essentially paying the tenants to allow the viewings. If there were no viewings there's no discount.

The discount is dependent on viewings being allowed and they happen.

If I buy something at a 50% I must carry out a simple contract with the seller, ie buy the product.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
Giving a discount so the tenants allow viewings, is essentially paying the tenants to allow the viewings. If there were no viewings there's no discount.

The discount is dependent on viewings being allowed and they happen.

If I buy something at a 50% I must carry out a simple contract with the seller, ie buy the product.
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explain to me so, a rental at €1,000 a month and the tenants only paid €500. What does the landlord pay tax on, rental income as per the contract or rental income received?

explain to me so, a rental at €2,000 a month and the landlord offers a 2% discount is the rent is paid on or before the 2nd day of each month (so, €1,960 paid or €2,000 paid). What does the landlord pay tax on, rental income as per the contract (€2,000) or rental income received €1,960)?
 
PebbleBeach2020 said:
explain to me so, a rental at €1,000 a month and the tenants only paid €500. What does the landlord pay tax on, rental income as per the contract or rental income received?

explain to me so, a rental at €2,000 a month and the landlord offers a 2% discount is the rent is paid on or before the 2nd day of each month (so, €1,960 paid or €2,000 paid). What does the landlord pay tax on, rental income as per the contract (€2,000) or rental income received €1,960)?
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But none of those scenarios are paying the tenants for allowing the landlord to get people to view the property.

I have given discounts to tenants but always sent a written note of the new arrangement to them.

I mean any landlord could keep a months rent for themselves and say I gave a months discount because they allowed viewings apparently the Revenue wouldn't be bothered.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
Giving a discount so the tenants allow viewings, is essentially paying the tenants to allow the viewings. If there were no viewings there's no discount.

The discount is dependent on viewings being allowed and they happen.
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Well, it's a refund or deferral of money they have paid in rent, meaning the landlord is not obliged to pay tax on it. If a shop gives you a discount on a product, do you feel obliged to call up revenue seeking to pay income tax on that discount?

Paul O Mahoney said:
If I buy something at a 50% I must carry out a simple contract with the seller, ie buy the product.
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That doesn't really make sense, if you're buying something the formation of a contract requires consideration, it's only formed when payment is handed over. But that's covered under the Sale & Supply of Goods legislation, not really anything to do with taxation.
 
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