Tenant agreed 12 month Lease and then left after 6 months.

[Dermot]

About 7 months ago I placed an add on daft looking for a tenant. One of the conditions in the add was that it was for a minimum of 12 months.
I had a large number of calls looking to rent the property and I let the property in a few hours. The tenant while on the phone to me stated that they were aware that it was for a minimum of 12 months.
I let them view the property and they were very anxious to take the property and as they were anxious to secure the property she asked for an hour to get back with the deposit and a months rent in advance and this was done as agreed.
As I did not expect to rent it on the day I had no lease with me and I stated to the tenant that I would leave in the lease to them over the next few days and they could look it over and we would all sign. As there was nobody in the house when I called I dropped it in the letter box. I met tenant a week later and asked were they ready to sign and she said they would but husband was not at home. The lease was actually never signed but was prepared as a 12 month lease.
After 5 months husband rang me and stated that due to the cost of commuting that they were leaving at the end of 6 months.
Lease was registered on time with PRTB for 12 months.
At the end of 6 months keys were handed back and house was pretty much okay. It was agreed that the deposit balance would be refunded within a week which was done.
I refunded the deposit less my cost of advertising with daft which was €46.60 and 50% of the PRTB fee which was €90.00. (half fee of PRTB €45.00). I stopped in total €91.60. I lost one days rent but made no issue of this.
Now the wife is complaining and rang PRTB and stating that I had no right to make any stoppages and PRTB are backing her. She is sending me aggressive text messages but I am not responding
I am not into confrontation and never had issues before as I normally am able to deal with issues amicably. I am in no doubt that this person wants a fight.
I am really interested to know what have I done wrong in relation to the stoppages.
I pointed out why I made the stoppages in the letter with the refund that it was because the lease was for 12 months etc.
The rent was paid on time.
Sorry for the long post but trying to give as complete a picture as possible.

 

[Delboy]

I really don't think you should have bothered deducting the 91.60. Small money and just opened the door to trouble for yourself.
Lease or no lease, my understanding is that if they gave sufficient notice then that is all that was required.

Give them back the 91.60 and move on

 

[facetious]

You don't know the story that the wife gave the RTB.

From my interpretation of what you have written, you had a fixed term agreement (at least a verbal one - but verbal agreements are a case of 'I said - they said") with your tenants. As such, they had no right to break the lease in such a way. However, tenants have a way of exiting a fixed term lease: they should have assigned the remainder of the lease, at their expense.

As they did not assign the lease, you are entitled to cover your vouched expenses from the tenants plus any rent until the property is re-let. However, you would have to make a claim with the RTB against the tenants. However, I don't think you can include the RTB fee - that is something you will have to swallow. And as for making a claim for €46.50, the time, hassle and stress (not to mention the time waiting for an adjudication) of it all is not worth the effort for such a small return.

 

[cremeegg]

While I agree with Facetious advice, I would be worried about one thing. You said "I am in no doubt that this person wants a fight". If that is the case I wouldn't give ground, let them take a case to the PRTB, let them win then pay them or don't. If you concede now they will have been frustrated in their desire for a fight and come at you for something else.

In my experience it is never wise to step back from a bully.

 

[Gerard123]

Seriously? Pay them the money back, get them to sign something saying no further claims/acknowledging refund and move on.

You gave them the keys across without getting them to sign a lease in advance, what checking of references and background did you do? Sounds like you handed the keys over almost immediately? Foolish indeed. You got your house back intact and no major issues. Chalk it down to experience, a very cheap lesson, and a bit of good fortune.

Think there are bigger issues in life to deal with. Pick the battles that are worth fighting. Is this one?

 

[Bronte]

Dermot you've lost the plot with this if you don't mind my saying so. Firstly you're not allowed to take the PRTB fee or the advertising costs (and you can in any case write them off against tax) The deposit can only be used for repairs and rent. That is not what you're doing. The figures are so low I wonder why you ever even bothered.

You asked that particular question so that's my take on it.

However I think if the notice was not valid then you may have been entitled to some rent.

As for written leases, never had one, never tell the tenants they have to stay a certain amount of time either etc. If they want to go off with them is my motto as a landlord.

 

[LS400]

To answer your highlighted question, Morally, I dont believe you did anything wrong.

If the tenant had any morals, they would without question pay their dues without running to the RTB. I think its sad all the same, that there you are, trusting, giving the benefit of the doubt, although its a business, yet still trying to keep the relationship on a moralistic level, that you get this type of scenario.
Then you have the, walk away and be thankful they didn't trash the place. Well why the heck should they feel they can do just that. Why have the few, who do such damage, have no fear from carrying out such actions...

Thats whats wrong, and until there is something in place to penalize bad behavior, whether its breaking a lease, (on either side) or trashing the place, we will continue to have a dysfunctional system.

 

[Dermot]

Dermot you've lost the plot with this if you don't mind my saying so. Firstly you're not allowed to take the PRTB fee or the advertising costs (and you can in any case write them off against tax) The deposit can only be used for repairs and rent. That is not what you're doing. The figures are so low I wonder why you ever even bothered.

I am not at all certain that I have lost the plot Bronte and I normally appreciate your advice. Yes the figure is low but I see it from a principled point of view. If I owed you €2.00 I would pay you. But I forgot that bad behaviour is a tenants right.

To answer your highlighted question, Morally, I dont believe you did anything wrong.

If the tenant had any morals, they would without question pay their dues without running to the RTB. I think its sad all the same, that there you are, trusting, giving the benefit of the doubt, although its a business, yet still trying to keep the relationship on a moralistic level, that you get this type of scenario.

Absolutely agree

Then you have the, walk away and be thankful they didn't trash the place. Well why the heck should they feel they can do just that. Why have the few, who do such damage, have no fear from carrying out such actions...

That is the sad reality

Thats whats wrong, and until there is something in place to penalize bad behavior, whether its breaking a lease, (on either side) or trashing the place, we will continue to have a dysfunctional system.

Sadly there will never be any realistic change in the law to change this dysfunctional system. As I have stated before I am getting out of this racket in a planned way over the next few years.
I am at it for quite some time and I see some descriptions stating that it is a business but when it comes to normal business law or taxation it is not treated as a business. So what is it?

You gave them the keys across without getting them to sign a lease in advance, what checking of references and background did you do? Sounds like you handed the keys over almost immediately? Foolish indeed.

Yes I was able to do a full background check within 15 minutes and all checked out. Lease was not signed for reason stated. What good is a Lease anyway in our dysfunctional system.

Seriously? Pay them the money back

. Will do that.

You don't know the story that the wife gave the RTB.

That is the same belief that I had. I agree with the general trust of your post.

In my experience it is never wise to step back from a bully.

I normally would not but I do not have the time for getting involve with RTB outfit.

I really appreciate the time and advice given by all the posters on this thread even those that were in disagreement with what I done.

In another thread I was really horrified to read that a Landlord had to pay €10k to extract a tenant from a property. Makes one wonder what is going on.

 

[Bronte]

I have those same principles too Dermot, I totally get where you are coming from. But once I realised that in Ireland being a landlords apparently means you're scum of the earth and tenants can do what they like if they really mean to, then I'm not wasting my time anymore deducting anything.

I've cleaned out the most disgusting fridges, had to throw out cookers that were caked in food, bagged on one occasion nearly 30 bags of revolting household waste for a tenant I paid to leave and who took me to the High court.

So that's where I'm coming from. I wouldn't now even worry about a tenant leaving early, so what, it's part of this business in Ireland. It's totally different abroad, a proper business, where the onus is on the tenant to keep the place clean and repaired, you can't be called at midnight because your drunken tenant has lost his keys again and you tell him to break in as you are elderly and live two hours away ( my mother a landlord did this). Where it took four weeks of begging to get a Nigerian drug dealer, high, to leave - it worked etc.

Must say the last decade has been so far without major incident for me, and tenants are in the main grand people. I particularly like the Eastern Europeans, and nobody will ever convince me that the Irish are not absolutes pits as renters.

 

[Gerard123]

Agree with virtually all comments. System in Ireland is ridiculous. Actually doesn't help either good landlords or good tenants properly. Allows bad behaviour to be tolerated.

Don't agree with comments re irish tenants. I would not distinguish between irish and non irish. One aspect I like is that whatever tenant I have is that they have lived in Ireland for some time. Allows detailed checking to be done.

 

[postman pat]

Just a general comment,renting a house and getting tenants is like a lucky dip!....Its really like putting your future financial well being in some one elses hands and hoping for the best,at least with stocks and shares you can cut your losses,anyway this thread has finally stopped all my ideas of being a landlord again...so thank you all

Pat

 

[moneybox]

this thread has finally stopped all my ideas of being a landlord again...so thank you all

Pat

Me too, I am absolutely shocked that the OP in another thread had to hand over €10,000 to a tenant in order to get him out of his own property. No wonder landlords especially accidental ones are selling up at an alarming rate.

 

[Jumpstartdublin]

Sounds like a storm in a teacup over small change. Move on. It's easy to have property rented again in current market.