Tenant - 1day notice

veron01 said:
I asked the LL for advise and TBH he wasn't very helpful. I think as it is my problem he handed it back to me to deal with. However, I can understand why as essentially it really has nothing to do with him as I took on this guy, not him and I have his deposit.

I'd be very surprised if Threshold tell me today that he can get away with 1 days notice even if it was just a verbal agreement.
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Does the tenant have a receipt for the deposit?

If you've no lease agreement and he's no receipt I don't see how anythings inforceable. 1 days notice is not right - there may be no legal agreement but it's not right. Hold the deposit and the explain the situation clearly and concisely to Threshold, or whoever, contacts you. Don't be bullied by legal mumbo jumbo into giving it back. Make him prove his case if needs be.

The PRTB has no jurisdiction on sublets, in fact I'd be surprised if anyone does. The tenants rights are virtually zero in cases like this. Threshold has no jurisdiction over anything.
 
Howitzer said:
Does the tenant have a receipt for the deposit?

If you've no lease agreement and he's no receipt I don't see how anythings inforceable. 1 days notice is not right - there may be no legal agreement but it's not right. Hold the deposit and the explain the situation clearly and concisely to Threshold, or whoever, contacts you. Don't be bullied by legal mumbo jumbo into giving it back. Make him prove his case if needs be.

The PRTB has no jurisdiction on sublets, in fact I'd be surprised if anyone does. The tenants rights are virtually zero in cases like this. Threshold has no jurisdiction over anything.
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No he has no receipt, nothing to say that he was there at all. My only concern is that as he has the key still and does not seem to be handing it back in a hurry, (suppose as leverage for his deposit) that he may do damage to the house to get his money's worth so to speak. Is it definite that PRTB have no jurisdiction over sublets?
 
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There is a box under "details of Tenancy" for subletting, but you've never indicated that you registered the sub let with PRTB. If you are not registered, I doubt they will give you any hlep (they don't tend to help LL's who are registered!!!). I'm not even sure if it would down to you or the LL to register. I hope you get some financial benefit out of arranging the sublet or is the LL using you as an easy touch??
 
When you sublet are you actually acting as a landlord with a landlord's rights and obligations? By subletting do you mean you took on lease with landlord and then looked for fellow tenants yourself ? Some interesting points here with regard to legal status of subletting.
 
1. What is a landlord?

A landlord is the owner of a
property who leases or rents it to
another person. The person who
rents the property is a tenant. The
agreement between the landlord
and the tenant is a tenancy.
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[broken link removed]

You're not the Owner, ergo you're not the Landlord.


2. Termination of Tenancy by the Tenant.

IF you were deemed to be the landlord AND the ex-tenant was deemed to be a tenant.

Valid notice


A valid notice of termination must:
  • Be in writing
  • Be signed by the tenant
  • Specify the date of service
  • Specify the termination date (the tenant has the whole of the 24 hours of this date to vacate possession)
  • State that any issue as to the validity of the notice or the right of the tenant to serve it must be referred to the Private Residential Tenancies Board within 28 days from the receipt of the notice.
Serving the notice

The notice may be served on the landlord or his/her agent in person, or may be left at or posted to the landlord/agent contact address.

Notice Periods for the Termination of a Tenancy by the Tenant

Subject to the terms of any letting agreement in place, if a tenant wishes to terminate the tenancy, the notice period that must be given to the landlord is determined by the duration of the tenancy:

Notice Period

Duration of Tenancy

28 days
Less than 6 months
35 days
6 months or more but less than 1 year
42 days
1 year or more but less than 2 years
56 days
2 years or more


The tenant need not supply a reason for terminating the tenancy except where terminating for a breach of the landlord’s obligations or where the required notice period is only 7 days (see paragraph 4). It is important that a tenant serves a valid notice of termination as otherwise he/she might not be entitled to a refund of any deposit paid.
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[broken link removed]

You did not receive a valid period, as such you are out of pocket and can withhold the deposit.


All these points are moot however as the tenant ultimately has no rights under subletting agreements unless explicitly entered into.
 
veron01 said:
No he has no receipt, nothing to say that he was there at all. My only concern is that as he has the key still and does not seem to be handing it back in a hurry, (suppose as leverage for his deposit) that he may do damage to the house to get his money's worth so to speak. Is it definite that PRTB have no jurisdiction over sublets?
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Does the landlord know you were subletting? Some rental contracts have "no-subletting" clauses in them.

If landlord is in the loop, can you explain situation to him and ask him to change the locks?

You will need to hold back some deposit to pay for his share of the bills and these wont arrive for another month or two so explain to him that you will send him on the remainder of the deposit once the bills are settled.
 
homeowner said:
Does the landlord know you were subletting? Some rental contracts have "no-subletting" clauses in them.

If landlord is in the loop, can you explain situation to him and ask him to change the locks?

You will need to hold back some deposit to pay for his share of the bills and these wont arrive for another month or two so explain to him that you will send him on the remainder of the deposit once the bills are settled.
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Yes I have full permission from LL. Myself and my ex took on the house initially and the LL told us we can rent to whoever we like so long as he got his rent. LL told me I could keep on the house when ex and I split up.

It was worked well enough apart from the odd person.

The original arrangement always stood with LL. He was happy I was looking after the place and I was happy I was there rent free. He lives next door so he knows how well I keep the place and it has suited us both for obvious reasons.
 
Bronte said:
You are paying no rent? Looks like you are the landlords agent?
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Sometimes I pay no rent if there are enough people in the house. Other times I might have to pay it all if I cannot get anyone in. It is my responsibility to have the rent paid each month as I am the original tenant.
 
Update - Tenant - 1day notice

I just spoke with Threshold and apparently I have no rights whatsover. It still all stems from the LL.

I was told that I have to give back the deposit. In fact, if another person does the same thing and leaves with no notice and pays no bills or rent then I would have to go through the small claims to get money back.

So if I meet unscrupulous people they can do what they like and walk out with no consequences and I face paying their bills and rent. This is disgraceful.
 
Re: Update - Tenant - 1day notice

I don't completely agree. Your tenant also has few rights, if any at all.

Threshold say you have to give back the deposit.. but if you don't will threshold offer any help to your tenant? It doesn't sound like it. So how exactly are you oblidged to give the deposit back?

I'm not sure you can chase a private individual through the small claims court.. is that not for private individuals to chase companies? So you may not be able to chase sub-tenants through the small claims court.

You end up paying their bills and rent if they walk out because you have an agreement with your landlord. That is completely seperate from your sub-tenancy agreement. If you refuse to return the money to your sub-tenant what can he do?, nothing probably.. other than taking you to court.. (unless of course if Threshold are prepared to act on his behalf, but it's not clear that they would.)

Based on Howitzers post you are not a landlord as you don't own the property.. so it's unclear whether your sub-tenant is in fact a tenant at all.. and if not he may have no rights at all either...

If I were you I wouldn't return the deposit.. well, I would return the deposit minus whatever expenses you are out of pocket due to him not fulfilling his side of the verbal agreement, i.e the lost rent from the notice period., and the bills.
 
I'm so annoyed by it all. I have the money for him ready to go but TBH it galls me that I have to hand it over and still pay his rent.

I am not really a confrontational person and he prob knows this but part of me really wants to deduct his rent due.

I don’t want to end up in court over this?!
 
Yes, then don't give him back the deposit. Tell him he broke the verbal agreement you had and that you are holding back the deposit until you get someone else in.

Ring the PRTB and Threshold yourself and say that you are subletting.. that you only have a verbal agreement with the main tenant, and that you broke the verbal agreement, gave no notice period, and are you still entitled to get your deposit back? If they say 'Yes' then repeat the question.. 'but I broke the verbal agreement and didn't give a notice period, am I still entitled to my full deposit back? If they say 'definitely yes' again then you may have to give it back.. my point is to ring them and pretend to be in his position and see what they say. Stress that you have broken the verbal agreement and that you are a sub-tenant, and that your deposit is not held by the owner of the property, it is held by the main tenant.


Regardless of what they say I'd be prepared to hold back his money.. after all he has broken the verbal agreement, and it's unlikely he will take you to court even if that option is open to him, which it may not be. You have to hold some money back for bills unless you estimate the usage, which is ok as the usage is likely to be less at this time of year, so it benefits you.
 
Strictly speaking, your arrangements are not really subletting as you have not vacated the premises. You should check the PRTB website for the document entitled "Licensees in Private Rented Accomodation" as this seems more relevant to your housing arrangement. You will find it in the link "Residential Tenancies Act and Information" on the right hand side of the homepage. There is reference to deposits in this.
 
round1 said:
Strictly speaking, your arrangements are not really subletting as you have not vacated the premises. You should check the PRTB website for the document entitled "Licensees in Private Rented Accomodation" as this seems more relevant to your housing arrangement. You will find it in the link "Residential Tenancies Act and Information" on the right hand side of the homepage. There is reference to deposits in this.
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Thank you so much. That has been so helpful. Basically as Howitzer said previously PRTB have no jurisdiction over a licensee and that is exactly what my ex housemate was.

Here is what the article says re deposits:
"Any money that a licensee pays to the tenant as a deposit is a personal payment to the tenant and is not a deposit with the meaning of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, as that meaning is confined to deposits paid by tenants to landlords."

So I think I am safe enough to keep back some of the money from "deposit/personal payment" for his rent and bills and to know that legally I am doing nothing wrong?
 
JoeBallantin said:
Ring the PRTB and Threshold yourself and say that you are subletting.. that you only have a verbal agreement with the main tenant, and that you broke the verbal agreement, gave no notice period, and are you still entitled to get your deposit back? If they say 'Yes' then repeat the question.. 'but I broke the verbal agreement and didn't give a notice period, am I still entitled to my full deposit back? If they say 'definitely yes' again then you may have to give it back.. my point is to ring them and pretend to be in his position and see what they say. Stress that you have broken the verbal agreement and that you are a sub-tenant, and that your deposit is not held by the owner of the property, it is held by the main tenant.
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Just rang Threshold again and spoke to another girl there. I told her that I was the licensee as you suggested Joe and she told me that regardless of verbal or written I should give the full months notice and the head tenant is in the right to keep rent owed. That the only route is the small claims but as I am not giving the full notice that I would prop not succeed.
 
Is it possible for you to say this person was under the rent-a-room scheme?
 
I am not the owner of the house, so rent a room would not apply to me afaik. I got it sorted in the end. As per advise from Threshold I could keep bills and rent due out of deposit, due to him not giving me proper notice.
 
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