TEETU Dispute with the Electrical Contractors (REA's etc)

Presumably the thousands of electricians employed by the contractors represented by the ECA will receive the 4.9% increase ?
Hopefully the probe initiated by the Tanaiste into the strike will find a solution to prevent an all out strike from the 1st September
 
Forgot to make another observation.
I think I'm correct in stating that all parties had agreed to a mutually satisfactory resolution before going to the Labour Court who rubber stamped a 4.9% increase ( non binding ) ?
As you say one of the bodies involved have failed to convince their members on this resoution and thus they have voted it down as is their right.
As such the TEEU are mandated again to initiate an all out strike to enforce the Labour Court recommendation as is their right , presuming of course the matter is not resolved in the short term.
 
Many , many electricians did not support the strike and in fact worked right throughout the strike, once the place of work was not picketed. So it is fair to say they do not have the support they purport to have from their members. There are now 3 employer groups opposing the rate increase, only the big boys, ECA are backing it. This is really the kernal of the problem, the big boys dictating the rates for the entire industry. A long way to go yet.

Secman
 
secman said:
Many , many electricians did not support the strike and in fact worked right throughout the strike, once the place of work was not picketed. So it is fair to say they do not have the support they purport to have from their members. There are now 3 employer groups opposing the rate increase, only the big boys, ECA are backing it. This is really the kernal of the problem, the big boys dictating the rates for the entire industry. A long way to go yet.

Secman
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Purely anecdotal concerning support for the strike - where did you get your info ?
The strike action caused huge disruption in the construction sector - I presume you agree ?
Long way to go as you say , hopefully not culminating in an all out strike
 
They picketed the sites that would get airtime ,namely the large ECA run sites, many many construction sites operated without interuption, believe you me. I have spoken to many electricians , all of whom worked during the dispute, and none of them had been balloted, they are saying that with the state of the sector, they would gladly take a pay cut rather than have no work at all, as they have many colleagues out of work.

I find it hard to stomach that TEEU believe the sector can take a pay increase, its just astounding, truly astounding. It was patently clear during the talks that ECA being affilaited to CIF tried to bully AECI into accepting the deal on the table. The large builders had been putting severe pressure on ECA to get it sorted. But at the same time large builders are putting pressure on electrical contractors to drop their prices !

Secman
 
Deiseblue said:
Interesting times ahead if employers can blithely ignore a Labour Court recommendation , if the Unions did that there would be murder !
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The Dublin Bus drivers in the Harristown Depot striking over a change to the timetable springs immediately to mind as an example of a union ignoring a labour court recommendation. That was okay apparently because the labour court didn't really understand bus timetables (until they issued a recommendation the union agreed with that is).
 
secman said:
They picketed the sites that would get airtime ,namely the large ECA run sites, many many construction sites operated without interuption, believe you me. I have spoken to many electricians , all of whom worked during the dispute, and none of them had been balloted, they are saying that with the state of the sector, they would gladly take a pay cut rather than have no work at all, as they have many colleagues out of work.

I find it hard to stomach that TEEU believe the sector can take a pay increase, its just astounding, truly astounding. It was patently clear during the talks that ECA being affilaited to CIF tried to bully AECI into accepting the deal on the table. The large builders had been putting severe pressure on ECA to get it sorted. But at the same time large builders are putting pressure on electrical contractors to drop their prices !

Secman
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Kieran Mulvey of the LRC and the two contractor representative bodies also believed that a 4.9% pay increase was reasonable as they agreed on that figure prior to having the increase rubber stamped by the Labour Court - in other words everybody at the talks agreed on the increase !
I have to point out again that your evidence regarding the lack of support for the dispute is purely anecdotal !
The disruption as I say was huge and extremely well targeted.
 
room305 said:
The Dublin Bus drivers in the Harristown Depot striking over a change to the timetable springs immediately to mind as an example of a union ignoring a labour court recommendation. That was okay apparently because the labour court didn't really understand bus timetables (until they issued a recommendation the union agreed with that is).
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I have to correct you , the Union did not ignore the Labour Court recommendation - the strike was unofficial and not union sanctioned.
 
How about getting rid of these stupid and out dated collectivist agreements and let people negotiate their wages based on their skill and the value they bring to the table (just like nearly everyone else in the country)?
 
Purple said:
How about getting rid of these stupid and out dated collectivist agreements and let people negotiate their wages based on their skill and the value they bring to the table (just like nearly everyone else in the country)?
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Crazy talk!

;)
 
Deiseblue said:
Kieran Mulvey of the LRC and the two contractor representative bodies also believed that a 4.9% pay increase was reasonable as they agreed on that figure prior to having the increase rubber stamped by the Labour Court - in other words everybody at the talks agreed on the increase !
I have to point out again that your evidence regarding the lack of support for the dispute is purely anecdotal !
The disruption as I say was huge and extremely well targeted.
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I have factual knowledge of many sites that operated during the strike, and you are factually wrong stating that 2 employer bodies agreed to the increase , only one did. namely ECA. They only caved in due to pressure within CIF, from big builders. On another note, it would appear that the 3 employer groups opposing the increase are in some kind of discussion. This would be a very welcome move and would leave the ECA very isolated, only representing 50 employers and the other Group if amalgamated would represent some 1,000 plus , basically the vast majority of contractors.

Secman
 
Purple said:
How about getting rid of these stupid and out dated collectivist agreements and let people negotiate their wages based on their skill and the value they bring to the table (just like nearly everyone else in the country)?
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I agree 100%.
 
secman said:
I have factual knowledge of many sites that operated during the strike, and you are factually wrong stating that 2 employer bodies agreed to the increase , only one did. namely ECA. They only caved in due to pressure within CIF, from big builders. On another note, it would appear that the 3 employer groups opposing the increase are in some kind of discussion. This would be a very welcome move and would leave the ECA very isolated, only representing 50 employers and the other Group if amalgamated would represent some 1,000 plus , basically the vast majority of contractors.

Secman
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The ECA and the AEC representative bodies both agreed that the increase of 4.9% was a reasonable compromise , I of course appreciate that the AEC did not manage to sell this view to their members.
The strike caused huge disruption and was extremely well targeted - obviously it targeted the bigger high profile sites.
Unfortunately I cannot accept your assertion that the strike had little support as the TEEU had a 93% mandate from their members.
The AEC have ceded the high moral ground at this stage having ignored a Labour Court recommendation which they helped to broker , something that is not going to sit well with ICTU.
Interesting times ahead !
 
Deiseblue said:
The ECA and the AEC representative bodies both agreed that the increase of 4.9% was a reasonable compromise
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As far as I know the AECI didn't agree to the increase at the talks. It was fairly clear that the members would reject any increase which was put to them.

From the LRC document:

Noting that agreement on the issue of pay in the electrical contracting
industry has been beyond the parties in the course of these engagements,
meeting together or separately under the Chair of the Labour Relations
Commission, the Commission will proceed to refer the matter to the Labour
Court for non-binding arbitration in accordance with section 26(1) of the​
Industrial Relations Act, 1990. This referral will take place immediately.
 
AECI are listening to their hundreds of members who voted by a large majority to reject the NON binding recommendation issued by LRC. The AECI members at the meeting did NOT accept the recommendation, hence it was issued as a NON binding one.
The ECA will be a minority group, representing about 50 or so members, which will reduce in January( renewal date) by definitely one member ! The others if they amalgamate, will represent a huge majority of Contractors, over 1,000 of them.
ECA buckled at a time when support was waining, other trades had begun to pass the pickets, with the hols looming and also realizing how much better paid the sparks are in relation to other trades. There were several flash points on the big sites where sparks had to back off from other trades passing pickets.

Secman
 
secman said:
You reckon there are 4,000 Electrical contracors who are not in Employer Groups and who are also employers ? (other 80%)

Secman
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From the NECI website..

.. NECI will continue to highlight the fact that a little over 200 employers fromIrelands 5275 Registered Electrical Contractors are represented at the ENJIC.

They don't say how many are employers. Equally they don't say how many of their members are employers.
Mind you I'm sure there are quite a few who used to be employers.
 
secman said:
AECI are listening to their hundreds of members who voted by a large majority to reject the NON binding recommendation issued by LRC. The AECI members at the meeting did NOT accept the recommendation, hence it was issued as a NON binding one.
The ECA will be a minority group, representing about 50 or so members, which will reduce in January( renewal date) by definitely one member ! The others if they amalgamate, will represent a huge majority of Contractors, over 1,000 of them.
ECA buckled at a time when support was waining, other trades had begun to pass the pickets, with the hols looming and also realizing how much better paid the sparks are in relation to other trades. There were several flash points on the big sites where sparks had to back off from other trades passing pickets.

Secman
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More anecdotal " facts ' about waning support for the strike.
Lets review the progress made by the TEEU's actions - the 10% pay cut has been shelved.
The 4.9% increase will be paid to the 5,000 plus electricians employed by ECA members.
Denis Judge of the breakaway admitted on Morning Ireland that they could pay the 4.9% pay increase so there should be no problem there surely ?
Hopefully the probe into the strike and the threat of an all out strike will sort out any remaining problems.
 
ECA can go ahead and pay the increase, but the other Employer groups have decided NO.

NECI broke away from NO one ! This was corrected by Denis Judge many times on the air waves.

Secman
 
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