Solicitor fee for coming to auction

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elainem

Registered User
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Hi! everyone, as posted previously, I am selling my house and mews with an amv of E3 million. I have been a client of this solicitor for about 10 years, and my mother was his client before me. I have negotiated a fee of 0.5%, given that the sale price is high, and I have bought and sold other properties with him before, and will be doing so again. My question is that he is based in the West of Ireland, and has to come up to Dublin for the auction. He is asking for an additional fee for this? Is this reasonable? I have suggested he use his Dublin agent for that afternoon, but he says he is not available. What are my choices/options? Thanks in advance.
 
0.5% of €3m = €15k.... I would think that should cover his trip to the capital for the afternoon.
Have your tried to approach other Dublin-based solicitors?
 
Pay him the money and don't be so stingy about it. If you're getting €3m for your house, you can surely afford to look after him. If the auction is messed up or delayed you might well end up with less than €3m.
 
When you say he is looking for an additional fee-do you mean simply travel expenses ? If its simple travelling expenses then on the whole scheme of things that might not come to much but if hes being smart and looking for a hefty amount for the trip then I would consider taking my business elsewhere.
 
ubiquitous said:
Pay him the money and don't be so stingy about it. If you're getting €3m for your house, you can surely afford to look after him. If the auction is messed up or delayed you might well end up with less than €3m.
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You probably haven't seen Elaine's other posts. She is a divorced mother of two and is trying to set herself up to secure her and her children's future. The house has already cost her a fortune to put in order for the sale. I think the solicitor is being greedy in this instance, particularly as she gives him all her business, as did her mother before her. 15k is a huge sum of money and if he had been supervising the sale of a house worth far less, he would have exactly the same amount of work.
 
liteweight said:
You probably haven't seen Elaine's other posts. She is a divorced mother of two and is trying to set herself up to secure her and her children's future. The house has already cost her a fortune to put in order for the sale. I think the solicitor is being greedy in this instance, particularly as she gives him all her business, as did her mother before her. 15k is a huge sum of money and if he had been supervising the sale of a house worth far less, he would have exactly the same amount of work.
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€3m will go a long way in any circumstance. If Elaine wants her solicitor to attend the auction she should pay him for this. Otherwise she can do without his services on the day. If she feels she is paying him too much at €15k for his services she should replace him with another solicitor.

Bottom line - even a very high charge of €1500 for attendance (1 day's chargeout @ approx €150 per hour + €200 travel expenses + VAT) is a tiny, tiny fraction of the sale proceeds. If the auction goes wrong on the day, Elaine may lose a lot more than €1,500.
 
ubiquitous said:
Pay him the money and don't be so stingy about it. If you're getting €3m for your house, you can surely afford to look after him. If the auction is messed up or delayed you might well end up with less than €3m.
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Why should she pay him for this. Being stingy about this???? She doesn't owe him a living. What she can afford is irrelevant. Out of her E3m she could easily afford to pay him E300k if she wanted. Why should she?

She contracted him to perform a service for her and for this he is charging her E15k. Why should she pay him any more. The amount of money she is receiving is of no concern to the solicitor. She is getting a large amount of money and now all her solicitor is looking to do is to get his nose stuck further in the troff and relieve her of more money than he had originally quoted her for the work.

I really hate this idea of paying anybody who is performing a standard service a percentage of the price. What has that got to do with the amount of work involved. There might be some argument with an estate agent being paid a cmmission on the sale price but certainly not for a solicitor.


Murt
 
Murt10 said:
I really hate this idea of paying anybody who is performing a standard service a percentage of the price.
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I agree. But you seem to be arguing that the solicitor's fee for attendance at the auction should be charged on the percentage basis. I am arguing that it should be charged on the conventional (time plus expenses plus VAT) basis.
 
ubiquitous said:
I agree. But you seem to be arguing that the solicitor's fee for attendance at the auction should be charged on the percentage basis. I am arguing that it should be charged on the conventional (time plus expenses plus VAT) basis.
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The solicitor in this case has agreed a fee.

That fee that he originally quoted her should include his travel to the acution. What's the point in agreeing a fee if one party tries to increase the amount that was agreed at the start.


Murt
 
Murt10 said:
That fee that he originally quoted her should include his travel to the acution.
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Why? There is no indication that attendance at the auction was included in the original deal. Indeed Elaine's suggestion that a Dublin agent attend instead would indicate that question of the solicitor's attendance was not agreed by the parties earlier.
 
ubiquitous said:
Why? There is no indication that attendance at the auction was included in the original deal. Indeed Elaine's suggestion that a Dublin agent attend instead would indicate that question of the solicitor's attendance was not agreed by the parties earlier.
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If the solicitor felt that his presence at the aucion was necessary he should have included that in the original quote.

If, in his opinion, it's not necessary then he should not attend.


Murt
 
I'd be inclined to agree with ubiquitous-time plus expenses. This solicitor may just well be attempting to take advantage of the potential to make a quick few bucks more than planned. Big price for the property will indeed gross him a substantial fee as agreed -doesnt mean he needs to twist this knife!

Considering the history this family has with this professional I think hes crossing the line. Why should he gain more than time plus expenses just because the property is worth a substantial sum? This lady needs to provide for herself and her familys future-she needs to be careful with her finances like the rest of us. No one can afford to throw away our hard earned money without questioning it first and thats why she is posting her query here.
 
Elainem,

Just a question. The fee of 0.5% you have agreed with your solicitor for the sale - is this for the conveyancing i.e. the legal fees involved in the sale?

Are you paying an auctioneer as well?

If it's the former, my advice is get a new solicitor and arrange a fixed fee for the conveyancing.
 
ubiquitous said:
Why? There is no indication that attendance at the auction was included in the original deal. Indeed Elaine's suggestion that a Dublin agent attend instead would indicate that question of the solicitor's attendance was not agreed by the parties earlier.
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There is an implied indication that it is included. If a house is sold at auction, the buyer must sign binding contracts and pay a 10% deposit on the spot. As a seller, it would be very unwise not to have one's solicitor on hand to ensure this is all done correctly.
 
A fee of €15,000 on a sale worth €3M sounds reasonable - is 0.5% the usual fee or has it been reduced because of the value of the property?

Presumably the Solicitor wouldn't charge an extra fee if the sale was in Galway? Since it is not, s/he would have to absent him/herself from their workplace for a day, have a return journey from Galway-Dublin, perhaps need taxis, have a meal and be compensated for the inconvenience. Taking all of that into consideration it doesn't sound to me that an extra fee of €1,500 (if that's what would be charged) is exhorbitant. In particular, if his/her track record has always been dependable.

I never thought I'd be defending a Solicitor!
 
The solicitor knew when he agreed the fee that the house for sale was in dublin. He should have taken into account the travel expenses for the day when he was agreeing the fee.
 
Hi! everyone, thanks for your replies. The solicitor is asking for fee of E3 for coming to Dublin for the auction, plus VAT. When I decided to go the auction route I didn't realise that a solicitor was required at the auction, as I have never gone the auction route before. I feel annoyed about this extra fee because between buying and selling property and fees for handling my seperation he has had almost E50k in fees from me in last five years. I also intend to buy some more property (easier to look after property) if I sell my house, and I had intended to give the conveyancing to him.

I decided to stay with him because of loyality, because he has handled my mother's and then my business for so long. Also, I generally find him reasonably efficient and nice to deal with. However, before I approached him about doing the conveyancing for the auction property, a solicitor in Lucan quoted a fee of E2,500 plus VAT. I am seriously thinking of changing, even at this late stage, though I don't know whether this fee will still be on offer from the solicitor in Lucan. Any advice and comments appreciated.
 
The solicitor is asking for fee of E3 (€3k?) for coming to Dublin for the auction, plus VAT.
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It might be worth reminding him that it's an auction and not a tribunal he's coming up to.

Honestly though. Have you considered that he may be required to come up for other occasions such as re-auction and signing over? Is that an extra €3k every time?

If it was me I would send him an immediate registered letter outlining that a fee was agreed at 0.5% for a sale of a property in Dublin and you would like that agreement reverted to and outlined by a specific date. Don't fall for the old "I knew your mother".

You said that €3k extra was a fee and not expenses, so he is obviously topping up on agreed fee?

On a last note and if changing solicitor, go for a recommended one.
 
Is it the case that the 0.5% was a quote based on a sale by private treaty, and then you subsequently decided to sell by auction? If so, then the quote would be open to renegotiation by the Solicitor, since it required the day trip to Dublin, which was not costed in the original quote, and given that the auction market is hardly thriving in the present climate, he may have to make more than one visit to Dublin. Your Section 68 letter from your Solicitor should set out the scope of work covered by the quote. If the Solicitor knew you were selling by auction when he first quoted you then he is imo being unreasonable in looking for additional monies (but this does not appear to be the case).

It is open to you to not go with the revised quote, and instead choose a cheaper option of a Dublin based Solicitor - which seems a reasonable course of action in the circumstances. You should be able to get a significantly better price, but remember that it is not just price that you should base your decision on, and remember to try and have the price quoted cover you for possibility of not selling house in first auction and/or subsequently by private treaty.
 
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