Saw Child Verbally Abused in Shop

[television]

I dont see how you can call a loving mother loosing her rag in a shop abuse in anyway. If that was the case there would be a lot of chikd abusers in ireland I d say. CHild safty is an important thing of course. However lumping in all sorts of trivial issues does no good to the real issue of child abuse.[/quote

Where do you draw the line then? A mum verablly abusing her child, or tugging her along, or choosing to ignore a tantrum rather than deal with it? Are these trivial issues? These types of situations have become all the more common in recent times, is it because Mums are under more pressure. Personally, I find it very upsetting when I come across these Mums, who let their children scream their heads off, with A. No consideration for their childs needs and B. No consideration for other shoppers. It shows a clear lack of understanding and control of their children. If a child is visibly upset, her/his needs, need to be adressesd,
by communicating clearly with the child and giving them you complete and utter full attention by removing them from supermarket until they calm down. A tantrum is not the childs fault, its a lack of communication by the parent. Anyway, I have digressed, children are the most vulnerable in our society and they need to be protected at all times, and parents need to put more fun and thought into trips to supermarkets with kids.

I draw the line at minding my own business in a shop. And do you really think that this is becoming more common lately? Tough look if you find it upsetting> Kids are not machines, neither are mums dads, we have our good days our bad days our tantrums, we say thinks to our kids we wish we had nt and sometimes even in public. we go home learn from it and move on and no one is psycholocially scarred.. As far as you finding it upsetting Id say develop a thicker skin.

If a child is visibly upset, her/his needs, need to be adressesd,
by communicating clearly with the child and giving them you complete and utter full attention by removing them from supermarket until they calm down. A tantrum is not the childs fault, its a lack of communication by the parent.

Thats some lesson in child phsycology your giving there. See sometimes in stressful situations people find it difficult to be perfectly calm and consult their "What to expect from toddlerhood" book. Dont be so quick to judge others.

 

[television]

Is it acceptable behaviour for a moderator to make fun of an issue concerning a child's welfare. Once gain I'm appaled by Clubman's attidude. mandac, you do what you feel is right, only you saw what happened. I fully support you.

I dont think he is making fun of child welfare, but in a tone of humor trying to make the point that parents are not perfect. and not all incidents of a parent loosing the rag is child abuse.

 

[Elphaba]

I am shocked that you thinK it is o.k. to say what you like to your child and expect them to get over it...How do you know? Your child learns everything from you, and will copy your behaviour...Nobody is perfect but you seem to think this type of behaviour is normal?

 

[television]

Not normal no and wrong yes. But Im willing to say people have thier bad days and on occasion do nasty things they may regret and yes even to thier kids. it does not however mean they should be called child abusers or that children will be permanantly scared emotionally.

 

[ubiquitous]

Not normal no and wrong yes. But Im willing to say people have thier bad days and on occasion do nasty things they may regret and yes even to thier kids. it does not however mean they should be called child abusers or that children will be permanantly scared emotionally.

Exactly.

 

[FredBloggs]

Not normal no and wrong yes. But Im willing to say people have thier bad days and on occasion do nasty things they may regret and yes even to thier kids. it does not however mean they should be called child abusers or that children will be permanantly scared emotionally.

I agree 100% and as I said in an earlier post most people normally regret it immediately. However unless you're one of the Stepford parents there are times you're pushed over the edge. Parents are adults and shouldn't snap - bit tthey do. It doesn't make it right but they do.

Why i think this thread has brought so many responses is that many have been in the position where you're out with your children, they've been obnoxious you've managed to maintain control, but then they say or do something that pushes you over the edge and you snap. I know if anyone happened to see me just as i snapped they would form a terrible impression of me as a parent. But they'd see me on my one bad moment. I'm a good parent 99.99% of the time - but am i to be judged on that .01%? I know theres those who will post here that I should never loose control - and I shouldn't but I do. Once in a blue moon - am I to be judged on that?

I agree what the Op saw seemed very much worse than this - but who knows what went before or after it?

 

[casiopea]

I'm a good parent 99.99% of the time - but am i to be judged on that .01%?

Nope you are not, as you said we are all prone to be pushed over the edge. This is not child abuse. However an observer cannot distinguish what is the .01% from more serious continuous abuse. So should they do nothing - even if the situation left them very uneasy?

Im no expert on the processes followed by child welfare however Im fairly sure that Im right in saying if the observers' instincts cause them to report the incident this does not mean the bailiffs will be at your door to arrest you. I guess (but am open to correction) it would mean assuming the correct details are provided that you are recorded and possibly, resources allowing, evaluated. Only if follow up reports are made would the situation be deemed serious/abuse surely? I know either way its embarassing - you'd rather not be reported for trying to control a misbehaving toddler - but being reported does not automatically make it abuse or you an abuser.

I am sure there are many false reports, or rather false alarms, received by child welfare but surely the fact that some are real needs to be focused on?

 

[Megan]

Sorry guys, I had a big long post typed and then when I went back to it I had lost it, so will have to start it again from scratch.

Could you post back on this and lets us all know how it paned out?

 

[television]

Nope you are not, as you said we are all prone to be pushed over the edge. This is not child abuse. However an observer cannot distinguish what is the .01% from more serious continuous abuse. So should they do nothing - even if the situation left them very uneasy?

Im no expert on the processes followed by child welfare however Im fairly sure that Im right in saying if the observers' instincts cause them to report the incident this does not mean the bailiffs will be at your door to arrest you. I guess (but am open to correction) it would mean assuming the correct details are provided that you are recorded and possibly, resources allowing, evaluated. Only if follow up reports are made would the situation be deemed serious/abuse surely? I know either way its embarassing - you'd rather not be reported for trying to control a misbehaving toddler - but being reported does not automatically make it abuse or you an abuser.

I am sure there are many false reports, or rather false alarms, received by child welfare but surely the fact that some are real needs to be focused on?

if every person was to report a child being chastised in a way they find offencive to social services think of the complete waste oftime and resources that would mean for social services. We are not living in 1980 east germany that we have toreport on each other all the time over every incident.

 

[FredBloggs]

On a humourous side of what is a very serious topic my 6 yr old has recently picked up high fiving everyone. He sayd "Give me five" and we slap hands, then "On the side" and we slap again and finally "Down low" whereupon he pulls his hands away and he says "Too slow!"

We were doing this on the street the other day when a van drew up and a guy in his twenties launched into me for slapping a child. Before I could say anything my 6 year old roared "He wasn't slapping me! Mind your own business!"

I just laughed and the "concerned citizen" drove off - nearly hitting another car as he pulled out without indicating.

And before anyone says anything I'm not drawing comparison between the Op and this person. What the Op saw was very different to what this idiot thaought he saw. (as to how he could have drawn conclusions from a moving van is beyond me)

 

[lightswitch]

"We were doing this on the street the other day when a van drew up and a guy in his twenties launched into me for slapping a child. Before I could say anything my 6 year old roared "He wasn't slapping me! Mind your own business!"

I would say fair play to the guy in his twenties for bothering to pull in, he made a mistake but so what! He was defending what could have been an inniocent child and should be commended for that. If more people interfered less of this behavious would go on! I certainly would not take offence. I would question though why a 6 year old would tell an adult stranger to mind their own business!!

 

[FredBloggs]

"We were doing this on the street the other day when a van drew up and a guy in his twenties launched into me for slapping a child. Before I could say anything my 6 year old roared "He wasn't slapping me! Mind your own business!"

I would say fair play to the guy in his twenties for bothering to pull in, he made a mistake but so what! He was defending what could have been an inniocent child and should be commended for that. If more people interfered less of this behavious would go on! I certainly would not take offence. I would question though why a 6 year old would tell an adult stranger to mind their own business!!

I was surprsied he said that too - but pleased in the circumstances. He is not a cheeky child and has never said anything like that before. Better he say it than be defferential to an obnoxious stranger.

ASs for the guy driving the van - he was gagging for a fight. When he launched into me he did so with some colourful language and he leaned out of the van in a most provocative manner and his face was red and angry. Also I saw the van coming and it was speeding along - and it screeched to a halt beside us so I don't know how he could have taken in what was happening. and he wasn't on a second pass of us as the street was fairly quiet and my son had only started high fiving.

 

[car]

I would question though why a 6 year old would tell an adult stranger to mind their own business!!

Are you asking how that 6 yr old is being brought up so that they can talk to an adult like an adult? Sounds to me as that 20 something needed to be told exactly what he was told.

If a 20 something cant judge whats a harmless game and what isnt, where does it stop? You're advocating a knock on the door from social services every time you see someone high 5 their child, just to be on the safe side, like.

 

[liketoknow]

this thread has gone so far off topic, maybe mandac doesnt need to justify herself to any of you hence the reason she has chosen not to post again with an update considering the way she was treated when she did post.

 

[lightswitch]

Car, I wouldn't call that talking to an adult like an adult, I would call that being rude and inappropriate from a 6 year old!

"If a 20 something cant judge whats a harmless game and what isnt, where does it stop? You're advocating a knock on the door from social services every time you see someone high 5 their child, just to be on the safe side, like."

Thats simply not worth my while replying to!!

 

[car]

Car, I wouldn't call that talking to an adult like an adult, I would call that being rude and inappropriate from a 6 year old!

It was probably more appropriate that the 6 yr old said it, as it demonstrated that the child was fully aware of the situation, and in fact more so, then that 20 something. If what the child said didnt demonstrate immediately what the situation was to the adult, then little else would have.

"If a 20 something cant judge whats a harmless game and what isnt, where does it stop? You're advocating a knock on the door from social services every time you see someone high 5 their child, just to be on the safe side, like."

Thats simply not worth my while replying to!!

Ok then, in your previous post you said

If more people interfered less of this behavious would go on! I certainly would not take offence

Can you elaborate on what you mean by interfere? if I ruffle my daughters hair on the street (or high 5 her, great game by the way) should I be asked by half a dozen people am I abusing her and expect a call from social services? Is all physical contact by an adult or a child to be queried?
As previously stated, if everything is reported, the real cases would be lost amongst the false ones due to volume of work for whats already an understaffed area.

 

[casiopea]

if every person was to report a child being chastised in a way they find offencive to social services think of the complete waste oftime and resources that would mean for social services. We are not living in 1980 east germany that we have toreport on each other all the time over every incident.

I agree, and how often when you see a child be chastised do you feel uncomfortable? I have seen mums lose it with their children and I have never felt like Im going to ring child services, this is different to seeing something that makes you feel uncomfortable. You are assuming that MandaC has misinterpreted this situation - if she felt uncomfortable about the situation and felt it was more than a frazzled parent and an unruly child then she is right to do something about it - as you said - we are not living in 1980 East Germany.

 

[z105]

I for one am up for closing this thread now for 2 reasons -

Mandac will or can not answer the questions asked earlier about how/who she reported the initial incident

It is gone way off topic.

If Mandac wants to bring it back on topic by answering the above fair enough, if not it has been a complete waste of everyones time and the thread should be closed.

 

[MandaC]

To summarise, I have already given an update on what I did on the boards, if you read through the replies. There has been no further developments since then. The incident was reported to the relevant authorities.
It is now up to them to follow up. Whether people like it or not, or believe it or not, that was and still is the update. I dont the need to defend my position or character any further and in that respect will not be making any further comments on it.

It has been a waste of time for everyone who got hung up over the data commissioner (FYI not even involved) or used any information given as fodder to make unhelpful digs. It has not been a waste of time for me, as I have followed through on an incident which was concerning enough for me to follow up on, that is the crux of the matter.

Thanks to all who took the time to respond to me both on the board and personally. Your genuine personal responses were very much appreciated.

I also think the thread has run its course (from my original question) and have no problem in seeing it closed either.

 

[fobs]

I for one am up for closing this thread now for 2 reasons -

Mandac will or can not answer the questions asked earlier about how/who she reported the initial incident

It is gone way off topic.

If Mandac wants to bring it back on topic by answering the above fair enough, if not it has been a complete waste of everyones time and the thread should be closed.

I agree. I feel MandaC should give a briedf outline of what steps she took to report the incident (might be helpful to others) otherwise this thread should be locked as totally gone off topic.