Rude presenter on The cafe on RTE "childrens programme" "eurospa"

[MrMan]

Do you think that this approach might contribute to the stigmatisation of mental health issues? And possibly in some way towards our high suicide rates?

Like alot of posters you seem to think that the word 'spa' is aimed at someone with a disability, my point was that it is generally pointed at someone without any obvious disability. Anyone that I have known that has killed themselves have suffered from a myriad of problems with depression one of them. Unfortunately their mental health issues ran a little deeper than suffering from name callling.

Maybe you feel uncomfortable around disabled people because you don't know any? If you did you'd know that the easiest way to describe their circumstances (if you have to at all)

This is an often used weak debate, if you disagree you haven't experienced it etc. As it turns out I do know disabled people so what? As already stated spa is generally aimed at those without disabliity. It is totally a harmless word that is often used without thinking and never to cause offence.

Would you consider it acceptable to use the word Spa in the company of an adult with Cerebral palsy?

Yes of course I would isn't that what I've been saying all along!

 

[Caveat]

Like alot of posters you seem to think that the word 'spa' is aimed at someone with a disability, my point was that it is generally pointed at someone without any obvious disability.

I don't think that matters. The point is that the word was devised originally to cause offence - that was it's purpose. It is still used to cause offence - even if in your case it is in jest.

Basically, in your example, what you are saying is that the person is "like a spa".

In the same vein, would you then argue that "nigger" is not offensive if directed at a white person who happened to conform to some perceived negative black stereotype?

 

[ClubMan]

In the same vein, you would then argue that "nigger" is not offensive if directed at a white person who happened to conform to some perceived negative black stereotype?

Why is "nigger" often deemed acceptable when it's directed by one black person towards another?

 

[Caveat]

Why is "nigger" often deemed acceptable when it's directed by one black person towards another?

I know. "Queer" often works the same way. I think it's almost a socio political statement in these instances. The group in question who has been 'victim' of the term are usurping the word or words and robbing them of their power I guess. It's all very confusing at times.

 

[ubiquitous]

I don't think that matters. The point is that the word was devised originally to cause offence - that was it's purpose.

Some years ago, Ronan Collins or one of the other RTE Radio 1 "easy listening" dj's played an old song called "Jeepers Creepers". Someone complained at the time that the song was offensive because the term Jeepers Creepers had originally been used to poke fun at This post will be deleted if not edited immediately Christ

 

[MrMan]

TBH 'spa' isn't often used anymore because it is considered childish and not a strong swear word. Nigger was an offensive word that has been commercialised by the black community in the entertainment industry and become semi-acceptable (just not by whites, as we're known). ******* was used to cause offence but I would argue that it doesn't now at least not in the same context. There are many words that have more or less lost their original meaning and spa is one of them.

 

[Caveat]

Some years ago, Ronan Collins or one of the other RTE Radio 1 "easy listening" dj's played an old song called "Jeepers Creepers". Someone complained at the time that the song was offensive because the term Jeepers Creepers had originally been used to poke fun at This post will be deleted if not edited immediately Christ

But surely Jeepers Creepers was/is a euphemism?

If so, it's not the same thing - it was not designed to cause offence (in fact the opposite could be claimed). If someone takes offence that is one thing but the intention is not there.

 

[annR]

The problem with calling a disabled person a spa is that just like any other term aimed at a section of society of group of people (be they homosexual, a different race or a different religion); we loose our ability to empathise with them on a human level and so it is easier to hate or ridicule them.

Good post Purple thank you. I understand MrMan's point that the word has lost original meaning and is usually aimed at non-disabled people but I agree with Caveat. It is saying ' like a spa' and still does carry the original meaning and therefore relates to spastics. Apart from it being in very poor taste and not something you would want your kids to learn, things like this do contribute towards stigmatisation.

As Purple says, stigmatisation leads to hatred as it enables us to think of those people as separate, different, therefore harder to empathise with. Ask yourself how historic and current human rights abuses aimed at a particular section of society have started, become the norm, become acceptable before in some cases turning into full scale genocide or crimes against humanity. That is definitely over the top I agree in this context but think about how these crimes start out and are enabled by society. Our society has allowed stigmatision of disabled people but is going the right way I hope. Every individual has to take responsibility for the terms they bandy around and the example they give to society.

 

[slamdunkin]

Why is "nigger" often deemed acceptable when it's directed by one black person towards another?

its the same with Paddy for mutual Irish people abroad.

 

[MrMan]

It is saying ' like a spa'

Pedantic mode now but i don't think people say you're like a spa, you spa, there is a difference.

As Purple says, stigmatisation leads to hatred as it enables us to think of those people as separate, different, therefore harder to empathise with.

Ya I guess those people could be considered as a seperate group. To label anyone at all even politically correct enacts a stigma of sorts. We cannot please everyone.

 

[speirbhean]

Pedantic mode now but i don't think people say you're like a spa, you spa, there is a difference.



Ya I guess those people could be considered as a seperate group. To label anyone at all even politically correct enacts a stigma of sorts. We cannot please everyone.

Could you explain what you mean by this please?

 

[MrMan]

i don't think people say you're like a spa, you spa

sorry, my brain was well ahead of my fingers I meant to say people usually say you're a spa, I didn't mean for it to read like i was calling the poster a spa. Actually writing that 3 letter word over and over is beginning to even feel childish. It is offensive in my mind just a lame old word that carries little clout today.

Is that explained enough or is there more?

 

[annR]

Is that explained enough or is there more?

You tell us! Do you still think it is a totally harmless word?

I can tell that you think that this is all political correctness gone mad. It's not all about being PC you know, most people would agree it's a rotten oul word anyway.

 

[speirbhean]

It was the second bit I didn't understand, actually. Who are 'those people'? The disabled? People with CP? People who use the world spa? I'm not being deliberately obtuse here, I just don't follow you! And although earlier, I was getting a bit annoyed that this thread was turning into a discussion on posters' command of the English language, I have to say I just don't understand what you mean!

 

[Sn@kebite]

I can tell that you think that this is all political correctness gone mad. It's not all about being PC you know, most people would agree it's a rotten oul word anyway.

It is a foul word if used in a certain context. If you said "spa" to a hadicapped person in a joking way and they got offended, they'd have every right to and would deserve an apology.
On the other hand if you used it to a able person in a joking way and they did (get offended) they are being silly, i think. And as for people who say they are taking offense on behalf of the disbled, i think they are just attention seeking.
We should allow the disabled people to decide for themselves weather it's an offensive word when used in jest, and not pretend (?) that we care, because if I was to ask the people on this forum what they have done to help the disabled (Beit: donations, volunteer work etc..) a lot of them wouldn't have made any effort to help the disabled properly. So where comes the right to make decisions on behalf of disabled people here? Is that not like undermining/patronising disabled people when we decide for them? They have every right to stand up for themselves, so we should let them.

 

[speirbhean]

It is a foul word if used in a certain context. If you said "spa" to a hadicapped person in a joking way and they got offended, they'd have every right to and would deserve an apology.
On the other hand if you used it to a able person in a joking way and they did (get offended) they are being silly, i think. And as for people who say they are taking offense on behalf of the disbled, i think they are just attention seeking.
We should allow the disabled people to decide for themselves weather it's an offensive word when used in jest, and not pretend (?) that we care, because if I was to ask the people on this forum what they have done to help the disabled (Beit: donations, volunteer work etc..) a lot of them wouldn't have made any effort to help the disabled properly. So where comes the right to make decisions on behalf of disabled people here? Is that not like undermining/patronising disabled people when we decide for them? They have every right to stand up for themselves, so we should let them.

Your description of 'helping' disabled people is patronising in the extreme. You are implying that the only way to interact with disabled people is to throw a few bob their way. If this society was more inclusive then you would meet far more people with disabilities in your workplace, in the pub etc. But societal factors including lack of physical access, employer prejudice etc prevents people with certain disabilities from mixing with the able bodied community, and that only adds to the ignorance surrounding this area. Yes I would be offended if someone used 'spa' in my presence, in the same way as I would if I heard 'ni**er', 'kn***er' etc. I once got out of a taxi and walked when I overheard the driver tell his friend that he was going to buy a 'cripple-wagon' to take advantage of the new legislation. I'm not looking for a medal for this, nor was I seeking attention. It just made me physically ill to be in that driver's company. And I had the physical abililty to get out of the cab and stand at a bus stop, whereas my disabled friends could not.
I absolutely agree that people with disabilities should speak for themselves. But, as an able bodied person, I too have the right to express my opinion, as long as it's not offensive. I have a friend with a physical disability who thinks the 'Lou and Andy' sketches in Little Britain is the funniest thing she's ever seen. I personally can't stand them. The world is big enough for both of our opinions.

 

[MrMan]

It was the second bit I didn't understand, actually. Who are 'those people'? The disabled? People with CP? People who use the world spa? I'm not being deliberately obtuse here, I just don't follow you! And although earlier, I was getting a bit annoyed that this thread was turning into a discussion on posters' command of the English language, I have to say I just don't understand what you mean!

'Those people' was a direct quote from a previous poster, see below. I was merely pointing out that some of us stand up for those who we feel cannot do it for themselves and that act is in fact more offensive than the word 'spa'. People who take the rightous line can sometimes come across as patronising.

As Purple says, stigmatisation leads to hatred as it enables us to think of those people as separate, different, therefore harder to empathise with

You tell us! Do you still think it is a totally harmless word?

Sorry AnnR I left out 'not offensive' in my previous post.Yes it is a harmless word, it doesn't enrage me or make me feel that a great wrong has been done onto anybody, so in my mind it is totally harmless (between adults - who by their very nature should not resort to name calling!)

 

[dodo]

I never said that you did all I said was if you and Purple and Rainyday thought like Ajapale that someone had to have a certain standare of education. The reason I mentioned you guys is because I find you all quite fair and when you cant make out something what is been said on AMM you have a nice polite way of saying it, ie not been rude or making one out to be stupid, so for that reason I mentioned you guys.

I never said anything of the sort. As you imply it's not for me to dictate such matters unilaterally. I do find quite a few of your posts (e.g. earlier in this thread) almost impossible to decipher though.

 

[RainyDay]

Like alot of posters you seem to think that the word 'spa' is aimed at someone with a disability, my point was that it is generally pointed at someone without any obvious disability. Anyone that I have known that has killed themselves have suffered from a myriad of problems with depression one of them. Unfortunately their mental health issues ran a little deeper than suffering from name callling.

I wasn't hinting that name calling was a direct cause of suicide or serious mental health issues. I was suggesting that name calling creates an environment of intolerance, bullying, isolating, victimising etc etc which may well lead to mental health issues in the long term.

 

[ragazza]

I cant believe anyone on this site thinks it's acceptable to use the word spa, thinking that it's just a harmless word!

I think that people who use this word have forgotten, or are unaware that it comes from spastic. How can it not be offensive to call someone a spa, when in effect what you are saying, is that someone is like a spastic. How do you think any spastic people would feel on hearing this?

To me using the word spa is equally as bad a calling someone a mongol, schizo, moron, psycho etc. Thay are all belittling serious illnesses/conditions.