Rip Off Republic - Episode #2 - review
- Thread starter Debasser
- Start date
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daltonr
Guest
I'd have thought Garda training would be sufficient that the Gardai would know how to handle a reported Crime. I didn't realise we need to prompt the Gardai as to what information they need to gather etc.
Perhaps that's why I was dissapointed with how they handled damage to my car. I didn't tell them how to do their job in simple enough terms.
Why would someone go to the trouble of visiting a Garda station to report a crime if they didn't want the Gardai to at least make a note of it? Rainyday have you ever reported a crime to the Gardai but then said "Don't worry about recording it, or invetigating it, I'm just here for a bit of a chat".
It's the consumer's fault if the cost of living rises, it's the victims fault if their crime is not even recorded by the Gardai when they report it. Sweet divine, what the hell is happening to this country when intelligent people start thinking like this?
-Rd
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daltonr
Guest
You asked someone who went to a Garda station and complained and got no reaction if they spoon fed them the details of the case and insisted that it be recorded in their system.
How has that any relevance to somone who doesn't complain to the Gardai and only moans on a bulletin board. soc said she went to the gardai. Drove specifically to the station to talk to them.
I think you might need to re-read her post, in particular the bit you quoted.
-Rd
Thanks for your advice, but it's really not necessary. I read the post fully. I'm refer to her complaint about the garda handling of her initial complaint, not her initial complaint itself. I'm wondering why she is complaining here about the garda handling, if she didn't complain to the Garda in question first.daltonr said:
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daltonr
Guest
We don't know what action or inaction will follow from the Gardai not taking her complaint seriously. In my own case I had to hassle the Gardai for two days and threaten a complaint to the Garda complaints board before I got ANY action.
The issue here is that when she went to the trouble of reporting a crime to the Gardai they ignored it. Didn't even ask for sufficient information to register it as a crime. And your response is that she should have forced them to record it.
Well perhaps she should have forced them. But the very fact that she has to force them is shocking. And is certainly worthy of mention on a forum like this.
I think when people hear the crime figures announced with great fanfare each year, they might like to be aware of crimes reported but never recorded.
-Rd
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daltonr
Guest
I think the review is probably over. Everyone has nailed their colours to the mast.
To sum up,
Everyone even those that dislike the show seem happy that a current affairs/serious issue type program has been successful.
Some questions about the show's ability to get it's facts and figures straight. This has led some people to take a strong dislike to the show. Others are willing to let that go because they think the overall message still has merit.
Most people seem impressed with the format with some dissenters thinking it's patronising. Etc.
-Rd
To sum up,
Everyone even those that dislike the show seem happy that a current affairs/serious issue type program has been successful.
Some questions about the show's ability to get it's facts and figures straight. This has led some people to take a strong dislike to the show. Others are willing to let that go because they think the overall message still has merit.
Most people seem impressed with the format with some dissenters thinking it's patronising. Etc.
-Rd
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daltonr
Guest
Fair enough Good point. Although we've hammered it out now and decided that those people are in such a minority that they are just statistical anomalies. Didn't you get the memo? 
Oh dear, I've re-opened the can of worms, so nearly closed.
Forget I said anything.
It probably is worth saying that there is such diversity in terms of what people think Rip-Off Ireland means that it's almost a meaningless phrase. A Case of consumers using Branding against businesses and government. Take a meaningless phrase or slogan, say it enough time, attach it to everything to that it instantly captures a feeling, and then use it to sell/justify other things.
The Rip-Off brand seems to have been organically grown. The TV Show brilliantly exploited it. Fine Gael tried the same thing with their wesite. If they are as succesful as Eddie's show they'll have 51.5% of the seats in the next dail.
-Rd
Oh dear, I've re-opened the can of worms, so nearly closed.
Forget I said anything.
It probably is worth saying that there is such diversity in terms of what people think Rip-Off Ireland means that it's almost a meaningless phrase. A Case of consumers using Branding against businesses and government. Take a meaningless phrase or slogan, say it enough time, attach it to everything to that it instantly captures a feeling, and then use it to sell/justify other things.
The Rip-Off brand seems to have been organically grown. The TV Show brilliantly exploited it. Fine Gael tried the same thing with their wesite. If they are as succesful as Eddie's show they'll have 51.5% of the seats in the next dail.
-Rd
RainyDay said:
Well given that I was having to dash to a Dentist appointment, due to unexpectantly wasting time having to pump up 2 tyres + go to the Garda... I didn't exactly have time to stand there and complain - I was going to follow the matter up today, after work (which I just did).
FYI: the crime WASN'T recorded on PULSE. Therefore the crime was never officially documented, and thus wouldn't contribute to actual crime statistics. I told the Garda that I didn't want the crime to go 'unseen', and wanted it recorded on the system, and a PULSE id given to me. I gave all details of crime - and now have a PULSE number.
Now, considering that I went out of my way to report a crime, and it wasn't recorded, I feel RIPPED-OFF that a service, which I pay for through taxes, wasn't provided. The Garda service, I'm supposed to get for my money is:
- Community Commitment
- Personal Protection
- State Security
according to their Mission Statement.
Only upon complaining did I get some 'service'... which brings me back to my earlier statement - that Ireland has a put-up and shut-up ethos... it is this that contributes to the Irish being 'ripped-off'. Only when one kicks up a stink does a situation get rectified/corrected or addressed.... Hence Eddie's nappy & water suggestions.
-soc
I asked you to explain this earlier. Do you mean that we are expected (by whom?) to put up with something (bad service?) and shut up about it (and not complain?)? If so who do you feel is imposing this pressure on you/us? As I have mentioned elsewhere I feel that the most appropriate way to highlight and deal with real problems/rip-offs is to complain and do one's best to have the rectified.soc said:
I'm a bit confused - what service did you finally receive as a result of complaining? Was this as a result of complaining today or during the original incident? Was this service an improvement on the service that you originally received?
So did you get the situation addressed in the end?
Earlier you said
and now you say more certainly:
Can you explain this seeming discrepancy please? Is the second comment made in the light of checking up on matters today? Was the incident recorded after your complaint today?
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daltonr
Guest
But even you will have to admit that there's a very real sense (even if you don't share it) that something is wrong and that feeling is growing and being shared by more and more people. The phrase Rip-Off seems to encapsulate something for an awful lot of people, the phrase wouldn't have found such wide use if it didn't hit a nerve.
The fact that over half a million people are tuning in indicates that this Brand has meaning to a lot of people even if you and I can't agree what that meaning is.
A Rip-Off is an exploitation. Perhaps the popularity of the phrase reflects a sense of being exploited.
Here are a few reasons why people might feel exploited, I've tried to be balanced and include counter arguments.
People look back to a time when one salary was sufficient to buy a house and now find themselves needing two salaries AND help from their parents.
They are forgetting that many families were lucky to have any salary to survive on.
We should be thankful that now it's possible for two people to get a job.
Possibly true, but perhaps the people who feel most Ripped off are the ones who grew up in homes where one parent did have a job, and it was enough to get by and buy a house.
People look back to a time when childcare was less of an issue because one parent could stay at home, and now find they pay more for childcare than for their mortgage.
People now find that they spend so much of their time either working or commuting to and from work that they get to spend less time with their kids than their parents did.
If they didn't have a job they'd have lots of time with their kids but it mightn't be quality time. They probably didn't spend as much quality time with their own working parent as they think they did.
But at least they spent a lot of time with one of their parents. Kids today where both parents are working are certainly getting a raw deal compared to the upbringing I enjoyed.
People are constantly told they live in a low tax economy but when they total up the taxes they pay and then add the additional cost of living that's caused by the government compounding other taxes they question just how low is low.
Compared to the 80's taxes are low. Compared to our neighbours some of our taxes e.g. corporation tax is very low. This is the justification for calling it a low tax economy.
Perhaps we should call Ireland a No Frills economy. We've adopted the Ryan Air idea that if you cut the up front cost (income tax), you can convince people to accept a lower level of service. Then to make your profits you create additional charges for everything.
People see €50million wasted here, €100m wasted there with little apparent concern on the part of government and then wonder why a €40 credit card tax has to be introduced to shore up the public finances.
There is wastage in all governments and all big businesses and always has been. The difference now is that there is greater scrutiny, therefore greater outrage.
This is true of course, but people might feel a little less exploited if there was a little more humility in the face of such waste and errors, instead of a brass necked insistance that there was no mistake, it was money well spent, and we the people just don't understand.
People pay €10 for a fantasic meal in one country and then come home and pay €25 for a lower quality meal and understanably think it's the restaurant ripping them off.
It's understandable to blame the restaurant. Most people don't have the time or the inclination to think it through and see that it's probably caused in the main by their government rather than the restaurant owner. Rates, Rent, Regulations, VAT, Tax, Excise Duty, etc, etc, etc. It's entirely possible that the cheaper foreign restaurant is making a bigger profit.
The consumer might be wrong about who's to blame, but they are entitled to feel agrieved. They're entiled to compare what they can enjoy with their months pay with what people in other countries can enjoy.
If they learn that in fact the restaurant owner has succesfully lobbied to stop other restaurants opening in the area, then they are entitled to feel exploited.
I thought that as I was writing it. I wanted to test my theory that you'd be the one to call me on it.
-Rd
whom = those providing the good/serviceClubMan said:
something = inadequate good/service for money paid
shut up = do nothing/not complain
As a nation, the Irish very rarely complain.... I refuse to be a part of that.
But why should I have to complain in the first place?? Why can't I just be given the proper good/service for the money I pay?
That the crime was recorded. If the Garda managed to bag the d!ckheads that committed the crime... even better. But I wanted this to be recorded, and if possible addressed.
Yes.
Yes, I got what I wanted *minimally*, which was for the crime to be acknowledged.... I want to ensure that any crimes committed on me are included in national statistics... Again, if the perpetrators are caught...even better
As mentioned in my post, I followed up with the Garda after work today... of which I found out that the crime wasn't recorded on PULSE (as suspected) and told them
soc said:
The incident was only recorded on system after my complaint today.
-soc
Not necessarily - I believe (not least of all based on debates around here) that many people go around blaming "bad stuff" on "rip-off Ireland" without thinking too deeply about it. When presented with facts that rebut some of their prejudices many of them are likely to recognise that their assumptions may be flawed.daltonr said:
Up to 300,000 people have tuned in to watch eircom League games on TV in the past few years but the average crowds are still in the low thousands each week. Watching TV is easy and passive. Being a bit more active about stuff takes a little too much effort for many people.
How do these comparative analyses to the past tally with your earlier criticism of others' comments on the same topic here and further on in the same thread and your admission that things were not better in the past?
As I outlined here and in subsequent posts in the same thread I dispute the claim that we don't live in a low tax economy.
I made two suggestions for where c. €10 meals can be had here in case that helps.
soc - thanks for clearing up my queries about your previous post.
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daltonr
Guest
I think it's a fair point that the Irish traditionally haven't spoken up when faced with bad service and in many cases will actually leave a tip in a restaurant even when the service is poor.
I accept that service in restaurants won't be universally great, and I accept from time to time the tip will have to be witheld and in extreme cases an actual complaint will be required.
But I wouldn't expect to have to deal with the Gardai on the same terms. Surely it's fair that anyone who walks into a Garda station to report a crime will at a minimum have it recorded in Pulse. Surely it's unacceptble that the person should have to force the Garda to record it, and/or follow up later to make sure it was.
I'd love to see crime statistics for the percentage of crimes reported but not recorded, and the figures for crimes recorded but not investigated.
-Rd
I accept that service in restaurants won't be universally great, and I accept from time to time the tip will have to be witheld and in extreme cases an actual complaint will be required.
But I wouldn't expect to have to deal with the Gardai on the same terms. Surely it's fair that anyone who walks into a Garda station to report a crime will at a minimum have it recorded in Pulse. Surely it's unacceptble that the person should have to force the Garda to record it, and/or follow up later to make sure it was.
I'd love to see crime statistics for the percentage of crimes reported but not recorded, and the figures for crimes recorded but not investigated.
-Rd
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daltonr
Guest
> As I outlined here and in subsequent posts in the same thread I dispute the
> claim that we don't live in a low tax economy.
I accept you dispute it and I'll agree to differ if you will
>I made two suggestions for where c. €10 meals can be had here in case
>that helps.
I think your suggestions were for Lunch, not evening meals. But the info is much appreciated. I'll do my best to check them out. If you like sea-food or a really excellent homemade hamburger, and are ever in Florida let me know.
-Rd
> claim that we don't live in a low tax economy.
I accept you dispute it and I'll agree to differ if you will
>I made two suggestions for where c. €10 meals can be had here in case
>that helps.
I think your suggestions were for Lunch, not evening meals. But the info is much appreciated. I'll do my best to check them out. If you like sea-food or a really excellent homemade hamburger, and are ever in Florida let me know.
-Rd