Retro-Fitting Losses on Shares #2

S

Stockmaster

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Sorry Guys, I had to move my question to this form as I had it incorrectly in deposits....
Hi, I would appreciate any help

I am a PAYE employee, and I have being filling out my tax returns since 2002 and recently using the online ROS form F11.

However I only now realise that I should have being filing my losses on Shares which I have been trading (trying to trade, but making overall losses each year) I had it in mind that eventually when I would make a capital gain I would pay the tax. (I have now given up the trading part and am a buy and hold)

here is my situtation, numbers are in dollars

2004 loss of 4982$
2005 loss of 1705$
2006 loss of 10,620$
2007 loss of 5,469$
2008 loss of 12,579$
2009 Gain of 4,954$
2010 loss of 5,943$
2011 loss of 2,428$

So my question is 1) can I now go back and put these down as losses to revenue, if so do I convert to Euro rate on the year they were realised

2) I am married and my wife owns some stock in ireland and if she sells there will be a capital gain of 5 -to 6K, can these earlier losses be used against her gain as we are jointly assessed

Any help would be greatly appreciated - Thanks
 
Will the revenue allow me to go back and enter my losses

As I got no replies to my earlier question, I guess my overall question is will the revenue allow me to go back and submit these losses for each of the preceding years that I had losses. Has anybody had any experience of doing this Thanks
 
Hi

Firstly the maximum amount of time that you can go back to claim a refund from revenue is 4 years

I suspect you would also have to argue whether or not your share dealing constituted a trade or business in buying or selling shares or if it was just a once off buying and selling of capital and investments. Some tyes of activities are normally accepted to be investments and not trade and vise versa.

Do a search on revenue.ie for badges of trade.

In any case, if you have already been filing such amounts as capital losses on your tax returns up to now then I do not see how you can now argue that they are now to be reclassified trading losses.

Kind regards

capnhand
 
The 4-year time limit relates to claims to repayment.

Losses carry forward indefinitely. While strictly speaking the losses should have been returned in the years they arose, I don't see any reason why they can't be declared as losses carried forward and utilised against the wife's gains.
 
I am not looking to record losses as a trade. I did not record them as capital losses already as I didn't know that you had to. I was hoping to record them as capital losses for those years that can now be carried forward in to future years where I might make a capital gain.

How do I go about this.
 
Stockmaster said:
I am not looking to record losses as a trade.
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I know that, I'm talking about CGT rather than trade income. It would probably suit you better if you had been registered as having a trade in share dealing, since the losses each year could have been set against other income of yourself/your spouse, rather than having to be carried forward against future capital gains. I would suggest you'd find Revenue unlikely to accept that your level of activity would have constituted a trade.

Stockmaster said:
I did not record them as capital losses already as I didn't know that you had to. I was hoping to record them as capital losses for those years that can now be carried forward in to future years where I might make a capital gain.

How do I go about this.
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You simply enter them as losses carried forward on your next tax return, at Panel 810 in a 2011 Form 11.

You will need to calculate the cumulative losses up to end of 2010. You should have a look at the CGT1 guide to CGT on the Revenue website, and if you can't follow that then you'll need to get someone who knows what they're doing to calculate the losses/gains for you.

You have a gain in 2009 - you should deduct the €1270 annual exemption from this before using up any of the losses carrying forward at that point.

I note that you've quoted figures in $ - for CGT purposes you are required to convert each purchase / sale transaction into € at the spot rate. Depending on exchange rate movements during the holding period this may increase / decrease the loss, turn a $ loss into a € gain or a $ gain into a € loss. Clear as mud?!
 
You are right, I should have done ti as a trade as I must have had over 500 trades during that period and about 6 courses on various strategies. So it is going to be a bit of work inputting all the $/€. Do you recon that i can add up all the losses for all the years and input them in this years tax returns (since 2004) as one loss?. And I must say thanks for all the comments, you have been a great help.
 
Stockmaster said:
You are right, I should have done ti as a trade as I must have had over 500 trades during that period and about 6 courses on various strategies. So it is going to be a bit of work inputting all the $/€.
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I'm not sure that even that volume of trades would have been accepted as constituting trading - the overall picture would be looked at, and the likelihood is that you would be deemed to have been indulging in a hobby, similar to a hobby farmer.

Stockmaster said:
Do you recon that i can add up all the losses for all the years and input them in this years tax returns (since 2004) as one loss?
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Losses carry forward cumulatively, so all I'm suggesting you do is correctly complete this year's tax return, to include an item omitted in error on previous returns. As its inclusion would not have materially altered the Assessments for any of those earlier years, Revenue staff would have better things to be doing with their time (even in an audit scenario) than going back inputting the historic figures. You just need to be sure that the cumulative loss you carry forward is accurate and can be verified.
 
I contacted the revenue office to discuss. They asked me how many years and said that I should write them a letter stating what I bought them for and what i sold them for and what the loss was for eacy year and they would update my return. I am not sure they understand that there was more than 500 BUY/SELLS. I may just average it for the year, purchase price and sell price or would the number of trades have any bearing on them?
 
time limit to claim capital loss shares

I still did not get around to filing my losses for shares over a number of years.

I am about to do it this october

Does anybody know if there is a time limit to claim capital loss shares
Since I have had net losses since 2004 and no net gain in any year.
 
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