Residents Association Fee: €30 pa for what?

[shesells]

Just 30 euro- I would pay up without any questions- beats having to pay 1000 + management fees in some areas...

In general residents association money goes towards basic upkeep of green areas. Management fees cover block insurance, refuse, landscaping, common area maintenance...totally different responsibilities

 

[redfedora]

. Management fees cover block insurance, refuse, landscaping, common area maintenance...totally different responsibilities

exactly also as the estate is now in the hands of the CC, who covers insurance, block maintenance and everything else that is usally covered by the service charge? Also as the estate is now in CC hands there is no legal reason for the other 55% of owners to pay, they are no longer in a managed estate, there is no lease/management agreement in place. also publishing a list of those that have paid would infer those that had not and though not a direct breach of the data protection act would most possibly be still a breach through that inference, i.e. you publish data that can be used to identify those that had not paid

 

[serotoninsid]

Also publishing a list of those that have paid would infer those that had not and though not a direct breach of the data protection act would most possibly be still a breach through that inference, i.e. you publish data that can be used to identify those that had not paid

It will be interesting to see if someone has a definitive answer on this. However, it would be unfortunate (in my opinion) if data protection wins out in this instance. All too often, a sizable minority sit back and benefit from something that others have to take the hit on. I appreciate that this thread started out on the track that some object to a RA on the basis of the objective of the RA. However, isn't it best to influence from within (seeing as you otherwise benefit from the activities of the RA ...whether you see it that way or not)?

i have often thought about how much more could be achieved and how much less a financial burden there would be if everyone chipped in (but that will never happen).

 

[redfedora]

However, it would be unfortunate (in my opinion) if data protection wins out in this instance.

thats as close to definitive as you'll get, firstly by circulating teh list of who has paid you've breached the DPA secondly the inferance is most probably a breach because it clearly identifies an individual who hasnt paid. all people have to do is add 2+2

All too often, a sizable minority sit back and benefit from something that others have to take the hit on.

this is true, the same can be said about those that withhold service charges in managed estates
but as the estate is now in the hands of the council then there is no obligation, legal or otherwise to pay, the counter arguement is "i pay my taxes, its now a council estate so the council can do it FOC coz its paid for in my taxes"

i have often thought about how much more could be achieved and how much less a financial burden there would be if everyone chipped in (but that will never happen).

owner managed estates can also be less of a financial burden if everyone chipped in and paid up, if the directors could negotiate the agent fee and the agent actually looked for the best price instead of giving work to the same old contractors. 2 years ago my SC went up by €220 to cover a sklight increase in some costs and teh rest so insurance could be paid because a large group of pewople refused to pay. if the MC recovered this outstanding money it would equal about 50% of one years full fee its outstanding that long. so this could be used to reduce costs while still maintaing full services.

the problem is three fold
1) people cant pay coz they dont have it
2) people wont pay coz they are bottom feeders and expect everything for free
2) people wont pay as they see no real point, why should i when paddy up the road isnt and enjoys the same benifits

 

[serotoninsid]

thats as close to definitive as you'll get, firstly by circulating the list of who has paid you've breached the DPA secondly the inferance is most probably a breach because it clearly identifies an individual who hasnt paid. all people have to do is add 2+2

I see your point - but is that the way it will be seen in the eyes of the law (and the DPA)? That was the question.

this is true, the same can be said about those that withhold service charges in managed estates
owner managed estates can also be less of a financial burden if everyone chipped in and paid up

Sure - agreed - 100%

but as the estate is now in the hands of the council then there is no obligation, legal or otherwise to pay, the counter arguement is "i pay my taxes, its now a council estate so the council can do it FOC coz its paid for in my taxes"

A valid point. However the reality of the situation is that the Council (and particularly now in this current environment) will not be bothered either way....in which case, your estate will go to sh1t. I know many folks mentioned at the beginning of this thread that they had issues with their respective RA's as they were focused on aesthetics. However, it's very naive to underestimate the aesthetics - as thats where the downfall of the area begins. Long grass and god knows what else - and those that are seeking to rent properties will only be able to do so via a deal with Council Housing - which will lead to all types (no disrespect to the many respectable people that happen to fall into this category ...alongside the anti-social types) moving in. And the wrecking ball gathers momentum from there on in - all the other problems follow - and its next to impossible to reverse this once it's happened.

1) people cant pay coz they dont have it
2) people wont pay coz they are bottom feeders and expect everything for free
3) people wont pay as they see no real point, why should i when paddy up the road isnt and enjoys the same benifits

Of course, I empathise with those who fall into category 1 - but not to the extent that I wouldn't be motivated to do all I can to insure that my estate (and by inferrence - my own property) gets dragged down as a consequence. No matter what angle people approach this from (ie. the investor properties, the real home owners or those that might aspire to trading up at some stage) - they will all be affected if things go downhill. Either they won't be able to achieve quality rental, dropping standards within the estate could well have implications for those who plan to stay (for their kids in the long run - and the likelihood of theft, etc) and those who aspire to sell up at some stage (I'm sure you can see how this could affect final sales price).
Category 2 & 3 - don't have my sympathises - their short-sightedness is far from intelligent.

 

[Butter]

In Meath the CC won't cut the grass or do any landscape maintenance. Private estates have to fund it themselves whether through a voluntary RA collecting fees or a management company collecting fees. The difference is that one is voluntary and one is a legal contract. Imo RAs should have a constitution and should publish accounts and must have insurance.
I am well familiar with the job of a director of a management company in an estate where the responsibility is only for grass cutting & landscaping. I can tell you that it a thankless, stressful job. Neighbours that you thought were friends will fall out with you over a small amount of money, people will refuse to pay for spurious reasons despite signing a legal contract, and people who turn up at meetings mostly do nothing but bitch and moan but won't give up their free time to get involved.
The only reason I keep doing it is to protect my investment in my house as I genuinely feel that without proper landscaping a large housing estate will quickly get run-down and will be treated by the locale as the sink estate of the area. I don't want that to happen to the place that I live so I put up with all the sh!t.

I'm sure that not everyone will agree with my opinion - but I think that you owe it to the area that you live in and your neighbours to pay your share. If you think that the RA/management company is not being run properly - then get involved!!!

 

[13_monkeys]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but this one interests me as I had a knock on the door this evening from someone from the estate's residents association asking for €80 for this year. I played temporarily broke to give myself some time to think about it.

I'm renting the property, moved in 6 weeks ago, and no one told me anything before I moved in about any extra charges. Last week my landlady tells me she's putting the house on the market, so chances are I'll have to start looking for a new house in a couple of months - maybe longer if it takes time to sell.

It's a well maintained estate of about 150 houses with a lot of green areas that need trimming. After thinking about it for some time, I'm left with a few conclusions that haven't really been raised on this thread.

1. From my time living here, it seems to me that families with young kids benefit most from well maintained grass areas, as it's always the kids who use it. I have no kids or family, and never use the grass areas. The only way I benefit is in the aesthetic - isn't that a pretty garden? kind of thing, and the truth is, that just doesn't interest me.
2. A well maintained estate adds or at least helps maintain property values. But I'm renting. I don't care about the value of the house I live in. I can see that the owner/landlord would benefit in that regard, but not me.
3. With the house now on the market, chances are I'm a short term tenant. The livelihood and harmony of the estate are therefore not of any importance to me.

Basically, I have no intention of paying - for the reasons outlined above. If I owned the property, I probably would. If I thought I'd be here for the year, I probably would - though begrudgingly (reasons 1 and 2). And if I had young kids out playing football with the other kids, then I probably would.

Bottom line is, you can't expect the same regard for the open areas from the occupants of each property. People on this thread are assuming, incorrectly, that everyone should love and have the same regard for the grassy knolls as they do.

 

[onq]

You didn't resurrect this thread, it only went quiet a month ago.

You come across as more of an apartment dweller and so estates aren't for you.

Having said that, €80 seems a high price to pay and I would question what benefits you would accrue, not being a house owner.

ONQ.

 

[RonanC]

We've recently formed a rather large residents association, which is made up of several different estates and roads, but all sharing common ground and for the moment we wont be charging any fee, but this could easily change depending on the direction we take. At present, we havnt had any need to collect any money. The council maintain the roads, parks, green areas and so on.

However, there has been a large planning application made in the area and the association knocked on doors, made residents aware of the situation, and asked for their input and opinion on the proposed development. We had a petition signed against the planning application and we may need to object to An Bord Pleanala, which will take a considerable amount of money. This is when the residents association fee will be required, but thats only if the residents want to fight on. I would also see the fee being used to go beyond the good work the council do in the area, by planting more shrubs, trees & flowers, doing weekly or monthly clean ups, and maybe even having a street party and bringing the community together.

 

[Jane Doe]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but this one interests me as I had a knock on the door this evening from someone from the estate's residents association asking for €80 for this year. I played temporarily broke to give myself some time to think about it.

I'm renting the property, moved in 6 weeks ago, and no one told me anything before I moved in about any extra charges. Last week my landlady tells me she's putting the house on the market, so chances are I'll have to start looking for a new house in a couple of months - maybe longer if it takes time to sell.

It's a well maintained estate of about 150 houses with a lot of green areas that need trimming. After thinking about it for some time, I'm left with a few conclusions that haven't really been raised on this thread.

1. From my time living here, it seems to me that families with young kids benefit most from well maintained grass areas, as it's always the kids who use it. I have no kids or family, and never use the grass areas. The only way I benefit is in the aesthetic - isn't that a pretty garden? kind of thing, and the truth is, that just doesn't interest me.
2. A well maintained estate adds or at least helps maintain property values. But I'm renting. I don't care about the value of the house I live in. I can see that the owner/landlord would benefit in that regard, but not me.
3. With the house now on the market, chances are I'm a short term tenant. The livelihood and harmony of the estate are therefore not of any importance to me.

Basically, I have no intention of paying - for the reasons outlined above. If I owned the property, I probably would. If I thought I'd be here for the year, I probably would - though begrudgingly (reasons 1 and 2). And if I had young kids out playing football with the other kids, then I probably would.

Bottom line is, you can't expect the same regard for the open areas from the occupants of each property. People on this thread are assuming, incorrectly, that everyone should love and have the same regard for the grassy knolls as they do.

it is nice to have the grassy knolls tidy though. I did not join yet as no constitution/accountability. And people they got to do the grass did it very bad . also members do not seem to have much input and there does not seem to be much transparency. if there was i would pay to have the grassy knolls tidy/neat even though i do not use them either

 

[serotoninsid]

members do not seem to have much input and there does not seem to be much transparency.

Surely you as a member would have just as much 'input' as all the other members? If not, then your right not to participate.

i would pay to have the grassy knolls tidy/neat even though i do not use them either

Everybody 'uses' them by default. If they're long and uncared for - you will see (within a fairly rapid timespan) that this will be the start of the 'rot' setting in - leading on to other issues. Having said that, I don't think anybody who is renting should have to pay.

And people they got to do the grass did it very bad.

Same in our case - albeit that we changed fairly quickly to someone who could do it properly. Then again, you can only influence from the inside...

 

[Jane Doe]

Surely you as a member would have just as much 'input' as all the other members? If not, then your right not to participate.

which is very little so i am told

 

[onq]

When you look at the modern alternitive of management companies and the outrageous charges involved you should be very grateful to have unpaid volunteers looking after your interests for a paltry 30 euro per year.

I have to say this is the most sensible post I have heard in this subject in a long time, John.

I gave of my time unstintingly for seven years on a residents association and wouldn't take back or begrudge a minute of it, but it all came to a head at one meeting where I was the subject of attack because a solicitor - whom we had all agreed to retain - billed us for a few thousand Euro.

He had accounted for the work and it was entirely in line with two other quotations for this work which we had received prior to appointing him.

At that point I confess I did get a little annoyed, listed out the work I had done gratis for the previous six years and gave them a bare-bones estimate of what it should have cost them if I had been retained privately by them as a planning consultant.

It was a significant multiple of the solicitors fees.
After that the meeting progressed speedily to the desired conclusion.

But it is a sign that people are only to ready to complain with people do things for them for a fee and happy to take for granted people who do things for them for nothing.

€30 a year residents association fee is very reasonable, but with the caveat that members concerns should be listened to and addressed and the accounts should be presented at each AGM and value sought on review.

ONQ.

 

[serotoninsid]

which is very little so i am told

Ok - but nevertheless, each and every member has an equal say, correct?

 

[One]

I can't understand this thread at all. The residents association wnat to collect €30 to get the grass cut every year. That seems very reasonable. I don't know why on earth a constitution is needed for a residents association. What happens in residents associations when people won't pay is that the volunteers will get annoyed and walk away. And those that complain won't bother getting involved. Honest to God, if somebody asked me for a constitution if I was trying to get grass in a housing estate cut I would think it bizarre in the extreme.