Renovate, buy new, or don't bother?

AlastairSC

Registered User
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Consider this scenario:

A friend is selling his house. It is a Victorian-style cottage on about 3/4 acre, in need of repair. He does not want the hassle of renovation, moving out and has no income with which to work. He hopes to get about E250k and will buy a new build in the next village for E235 and pay off debts with any balance.

We have been in the house many times over the years and know it well. Suppose we bought it, renovated and sold. Costs very roughly as follows:
Purchase price: 250,000
Stamp duty: 12,000
Improvements 85, 000
(we made out a detailed schedule and costed it)

Total cost 347,000

It's value in twelve months could be, conservatively, 450,000 (We spent a few days talking to auctioneers describing the house as it would be and location and this was the minimum of the figures suggested, assuming present or slowing appreciation.) We are aware that no-one can predict this, however.
This could be a gain of 103,000. Less 20% CGT, we make about E82,000, less with costs overruns.

He has been approached over the years to sell so when it goes on sale it will attract some bidding. It is not advertised yet and he has said that if he gets E250k before that point, he will take it as it's fees saved. Other friends have suggested he stay and renovate, as they see the potential too, but he wants to move.

How would we set about raising funds for something like this? 82k made on 347k is around 23%. Bringing our own borrowing back up to 80-90% of our current valuation would produce about 90k. The advantage of this particular situation is that it is nearby, which makes direct labour a good prospect to supervise, as we did with our own. We have worked out a renovation breakdown, based on our own costs two years ago for a bigger job and have overstated them to allow for unforeseens.

The resulting gain, even at worst case scenario, should be over 50,000 - a reasonable lump sum to put into another project or to pay down off our ppr mortgage.

Whaddya think? Interest only mortage? Alternatives? As usual our credit rating is good but disposable income is almost nil so we would have to work with borrowed funds.

We are looking around at other opportunities e.g. other renovations, buy a new build similar to the one he would buy, for investment, with an interest only mortgage, and set off rental against tax. We think that buying new gives the developer the profit, so the renovation means more for us, if we pick the right project.

Is this a reasonable project? How would we set about raising funds for something like this? Should we even consider it?

Replies from the experienced very welcome!!!
 
If you don't do this for a living then you have to raise money just like you would for any other purchase- i.e based on your incomes, the value of the property you want to buy and possibly on remortgaging your own home. So if you post details of your income it is likely one of the many mortgage brokers who post here will advise on whether you can obtain a further mortgage/ remortgage your existing house.

As to whether it is a good idea...well if you have really done your sums and have factored in all the legal fees, outlay, tax including stamp duty and cgt, the interest on mortgage repayments over the renovation period and the time it takes to sell, the possibility of a down turn in the market, you have a very realistic idea of how much it will cost and still think you can make a profit...

The things I would say- get a survey done, get a good builder in to take a look, expect delays and have a contingency fund. Oh, and good luck. I think it takes a lot of hard work, but there's no doubt it can seem a very attractive way to make a profit. There are people out there still making profits by property development- hope you'll be one of them.
 
Teatimer: 9k cr union, E300 pm. 6k car loan, E90 pm.

Thanks Vanilla for the reply. To act on your suggestion:
PPR E380k approx. Mortgage E220k approx. Joint income E80k pa. SSIAs E35k approx (in May)

Funding/general advice welcome...
 
If you know this person well why not approach them with a business deal.
He keeps it in his name. You renovate it. Sell it and give him a cut of the profit say 20%. You would be saving the stamp duty you would have to pay on it now and the CGT after if he is to sell as PPR and buy another as PPR. You could split the fees on sale as you would both have had the intention to sell so halving fees for you. It could work out well. However good idea would be to go to solicitor and have agreement written up.
 
I know that every situation is different but I have done up 12 houses in the past and am currently renovating 3 properties. All these properties were bought a few years ago and that's why I think I can make money on them. I have searched for properties for the last year that I think I could do up and "turn over" but just haven't been able to find any.
The market is so tight now that the auctioneers can usually price in the cost of repairs and renovations against the resale value and figure out the value of a fixer-up-er. I feel that if your friend puts this property on the open market he will get much closer to the renovated price than he might have expected.
That might leave you with a bit of a moral dilema. Do you buy the property from your friend knowing that he could get a better price on the open market, and if so are you willing to fall out with your friend over this, because deals with family and friends often have a habit of coming back and biting you in the ass.
Anyway best of luck
 
Niceoneted: I don't quite understand this - sorry. Renovations mean moving out (we discussed this). Where does he live in the meantime? He cannot really afford to rent for a year (weak cashflow) and needs the selling price to finance new house?

To the serial renovater (whose name I cannot see now I've changed screens to type this reply.) Thanks for that interesting thought. We hadn't realised this. We certainly would like to keep him as a friend and have no intention of profiting at his expense. How much closer to the potential resale value can you see him being offered? If so his money worries are over and the correct decision is to encourage him to wait for the estate agent machinery to swing in and market it for him. He deserves the break.
 
To the serial renovater (whose name I cannot see now I've changed screens to type this reply.) Thanks for that interesting thought. We hadn't realised this. We certainly would like to keep him as a friend and have no intention of profiting at his expense. How much closer to the potential resale value can you see him being offered? If so his money worries are over and the correct decision is to encourage him to wait for the estate agent machinery to swing in and market it for him. He deserves the break.

I've found that the best way to avoid future issues between friends is to get everything out in the open early on.
Get 2 auctioneers in to value the property at market value. If at this price you can still buy, renovate and make money then buy it but if you can't then let it go to the open market and who knows your friend might be back to you in 3 months offering the property to you at a lesser price.
Either way you can't be accussed later of underhanded dealings.:)
 
Best scenario is to buy it from him and renovate; trying to do a deal with him retaining ownership is messy.

The project seems like a no-brainer if your calculations are correct. Any small project like this that delivers 80k is attractive. Manage this project well, get out of it in weeks instead of months, and you will make some nice money.

Only thing missing from your projections is a game plan if you can't sell, or if the market drops sharply. Have you a plan for renting or otherwise holding if you need to sit on it for a couple of years?
 
. 6k car loan, E90 pm....
Just wondering: for repayments of 6k car loan of €90/month, if the interest rate was 7.5% it would mean that it would take seven years to pay off the loan, I thought any car loan on a car more than three years old has to be paid over three years unless it was a personal loan.
 
Better rate, slightly longer term, no problems! :)

Thanks, Goodtiming, for the advice - I'll take it!
 
Sounds like a very nice plan. However, what is your fall back position if when finished you cannot sell? How long can you sit on the project if there are no buyers? Getting advice from an estate agent is not really the same as getting advice from someone who does this for a living. For what it's worth my best friend found a house at what he considered was a steal (€305,000) was told by estate agent house would easily sell at €400,000.
He spent eight months!! reality check kicking in and €60,000 and cannot sell it. There is a change in our housing market and what we took for granted in the past may no longer apply. My advice would be to speak to professionals who make a living from what you suggest and see what they say.
 
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